Linux-Advocacy Digest #989, Volume #34 Tue, 5 Jun 01 18:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: Linux on Itanium ("stevekimble")
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: Chicken and egg problem ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Chicken and egg problem ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: UI Importance ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: UI Importance ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Chicken and egg problem ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: UI Importance ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is shit ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Argh - Ballmer ("stevekimble")
Re: SourceForge hacked! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: SourceForge hacked! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: UI Importance ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: UI Importance ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:01:39 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:56:12 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> >> Even if you want to change it but you can't?
> >> >
> >> >If a program has a nasty UI, then I would not want to use it. I might
> >> >want to change it. I might want to use some other program instead.
> >>
> >> Even if you can change it? That doesn't make too much sense.
> >
> >Sure it does. If I want to get a project done, should I pick an
> >application that's suited to what I'm doing, or pick a different one and
> >spend all this time customizing it?
>
> You'd rather use a program that forces you into a certain ui, than be
> able to change it to your own specifications?
Yes. I'd rather have a program made to a good usable UI that follows
common standards that make sense than have a program that I have to
"customize" merely so it follows what everybody else is doing.
> >> And suppose you're not happy with the basic UI? Suppose the
> >> programmers have different preferences to yours?
> >
> >Programmers should learn their place. Programmers should learn to do
> >user-testing. They should know something about UI design. Just as
> >software engineering is more than knowing a few programming languages,
> >UI design is more than just knowing the difference between a checkbox
> >and a radio button.
>
> You're saying the only decent UI is the one YOU specifically like? How
> arrogant.
I haven't been clear. Did you know that there exists a GUI that has been
researched and tested, verified, tweaked, and improved, that works, and
has plenty of articles and technical papers written about how it was
developed and why it works? Did you know that there are plenty of
applications for that GUI that follow its standard and are thus easy for
users to learn and use? Did you know that these applications don't need
extensive customization for people to like them and use them?
Making an application customizable adds a whole new layer of freaky
interactions between program elements. It adds a whole slew of testing
difficulties and potential bugs that can never be fully tested. If a
user customizes an application in a way that creates new bugs, what will
the developer say? "Don't do that." "Customization" is a way to divert
software engineer's attention from more useful work on the functional
guts of a program, as well as from the work that has already been done
in the field of good UI design. "We don't have to follow any existing UI
standard because the user can always make our application follow
whatever standard he likes." Yeah, right. I don't buy it for a minute.
Finally, skins are not customization and are not a substitute for good
UI design.
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: "stevekimble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: Linux on Itanium
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:04:20 +0100
"Kenny Chaffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9fghoq$q8l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > "Intel has teamed with Linux vendors to bring the open source OS to the
new
> > chip. And those vendors are eager to raise Linux to a high-performance
> > platform. "We now have a chance to offer Linux as a first-class
operating
> > system across the whole spectrum, from embedded applications to the
> > enterprise," said Michael Tiemann, chief technical officer at Red Hat.
Intel
> > was one of the first equity investors in Red Hat in 1998.
> > http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2768445,00.html
> >
> > Intel knows a mass market when they see one.
> >
> > 2 + 2
> >
> >
> >
>
> Cool!
>
> This could _really_ be the beginning of the end for Microsoft...
Perhaps the beginning of the end for Microsoft will be when the Linux/Open
Source community puts together their response to .NET (if no-one has a name
for this, can I suggest .TUX?) and charges absolutely nothing for the use of
the objects/components,
thereby creaming off one hell of a lot of business that Microsoft had banked
on to
keep it going. If they can't dream up anything else to make them huge lumps
of dosh,
they're on their way out.
>
>
> KAC
> --
> Kenny A. Chaffin
> KAC Website Design - http://www.kacweb.com
> Custom/Contract Programming, Graphics, Design
> Poetry Page: http://www.kacweb.com/poems/
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:07:58 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:48:49 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Compare that to a GUI, where you don't even get any options, you just
> >> get what you're given, unless of course you want to go editing
> >> shorcuts to put some arguments in, or using some shoddy built in
> >> configuration tool. Personally, I like complete control over what I'm
> >> doing with my command.
> >
> >I disagree. There's nothing inherent about either CLI or GUI that limits
> >or proliferates options.
> >
> >A CL program can be written to do exactly one thing one way, or it can
> >have ten man pages worth of options. Similarly, a command in a GUI
> >application can do one hting with no options, or it can open a dialog
> >box sporting half a dozen checkboxes, radio buttons, and text fields on
> >each of several tabbed panes.
>
> Yes, and that's nice and quick to use. Never mind typing "-t -y -e 45
> -p 78", which takes a second, you can type "ctrl+tab, alt+t, space,
> ctrl+tab, ctrl+tab, alt+y, space, ctrl+tab, alt+e, 45, ctrl+tab,
> alt+p, 78"
>
> >The advantage of a GUI is that it can even be programmed to make
> >impossible combinations impossible, or warn you that you're about to
> >destroy the universe.
>
> You can have warnings in a CLI as a matter of fact.
Fine. I never denied that. What I said was in response to the false
statement that in "a GUI, where you don't even get any options, you just
get what you're given."
> >> >>If you find that difficult to do, then you should consider
> >> >> selling your computer and taking up flower arranging.
> >
> >I think that the anti-GUI attitude illustrated by that snippet only
> >damages the user community. It encourages programmers to disrespect
> >their lay users.
>
> The lay users deserve nothing but disrespect.
Asshole.
Oh! Was that disrespectful? I can't tell you how sorry I am.
> >> Why would I want to do that?
> >
> >If you're such a CLI expert that you don't need the manual (that you
> >must refer to all the time to find unknown GUI commands) then you don't
> >really need the docuentaiton, right?
>
> And I suppose if you're such a GUI expert you will never be pressing
> "F1" again to access help, especially with all those pop-up
> descriptions over the icons. I wonder how you can access those without
> the mouse...
Pop-up descripitons over the icons are a pain in the ass. If I could
figure out how to turn the damn things off in Linux, I'd be a little
happier. Their need indicates that the interface was badly designed in
the first place.
This exchange has inspired a new Infernosoft movement ... to ban the
Graphical User Interface. Look for it soon at a web site near you.
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:09:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:36:35 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >In article <9fh5ka$mdb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fred K Ollinger) wrote:
>
> >> I actually raced someone. I read the manual and he hunted through
> >> random menus trying things, nothing was working. I found the right
> >> command in the index and read the description. I _like_ reading a
> >> paper manual. Much better use of a program, the reason why they have
> >> clasesses to learn word.
> >
> >Bad example. They have classes to learn Word because it has a zillion
> >features no one uses, and the features people actually do use are hidden
> >deeply behind multiple nested menus and tabbed dialog boxes.
>
> And when you DO want to use them, they're hidden away behind multiple
> nested menus and tabbed dialog boxes, which take a month to navigate
> with the keyboard.
An argument against the Microsoft style of piling tons of rarely used
features into an already-bloated product.
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chicken and egg problem
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:57:51 +0200
"Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:gZ6T6.21217$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9fik2t$5te$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Just providing backward compatability doesn't mean anything.
> > You have to lure the users to your platform.
> > Not giving backward compatability is a fence they will either trip or
> climb
> > over.
> >
> > Giving backward compatability is nice, but what was the *killer app* of
> > OS/2? What was the *reason* to move?
>
> Backwards compatibility may not mean everything, but I'd argue that it's a
> fundamental prerequisite to take over the OS market. Without that, the
> killer apps on the current OS are much more difficult to move.
>
> You're second point is right on. Backward compatibility isn't enough;
there
> also has to be a compelling reason to switch.
Actually, it's like a scale.
You *can* have non-backward compatible OS, if there is enough incentive to
move to it. (There are many reasons, I'm going to name them all killer app)
For example, for a Windows user, Linux is not backward compatible (because
it can't run Windows applications {Yes, I know of WINE, it's not enough by a
long shot.}) and there is a steeper learning curve. But it may worth it to
this user to move to Linux if:
- User want to get a lot of free software
- User don't like MS
- User want to run a Linux applications which is not available on Windows.
- User want to experiance a difference OS.
Those, (Yes, I know there *are* other reasons, these are just the most
obvious {to me} ), are the incentive to move to Linux.
If they feel strongly enough about wanting to move, they will give up their
applications, and learn to use new ones.
Now, by giving backward compatability, you add users whose incentive isn't
strong enough, (IE, those who don't want/can't give up their applications).
By giving users a good UI, you are eliminating another obstacale that the
user has to face.
And so on...
The between backward compatability & killer app is that a backward
compatability only *aids* people in moving to your platform, you've to offer
some killer app too, so they will have reason to move.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chicken and egg problem
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:00:54 +0200
"Gerald Meazell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<qq6T6.21206$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > The UI was just different enough to drive you
> > nuts after a while (am I in a Windows app or an OS/2 app?).
Functionality
>
> That was a design point. Users shouldn't have to know what type of
program
> they're running in an OS that support another OS's software.
Design point?
I would call it a design flaw.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:01:33 +0200
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:10:17 +0200, Ayende Rahien <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Why would the kernel BSOD just because the GUI crash? It should restart
it,
> > not stop.
>
> Good question. Sounds ungood to me.
>
>
> > Beside, I understand that Win2K2 can boot without GUI.
>
> Can it? Or do they just include a null display driver like with NT
> embedded?
According to Eric, it's a null display driver.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:05:47 +0200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:48:49 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Compare that to a GUI, where you don't even get any options, you just
> >> get what you're given, unless of course you want to go editing
> >> shorcuts to put some arguments in, or using some shoddy built in
> >> configuration tool. Personally, I like complete control over what I'm
> >> doing with my command.
> >
> >I disagree. There's nothing inherent about either CLI or GUI that limits
> >or proliferates options.
> >
> >A CL program can be written to do exactly one thing one way, or it can
> >have ten man pages worth of options. Similarly, a command in a GUI
> >application can do one hting with no options, or it can open a dialog
> >box sporting half a dozen checkboxes, radio buttons, and text fields on
> >each of several tabbed panes.
>
> Yes, and that's nice and quick to use. Never mind typing "-t -y -e 45
> -p 78", which takes a second, you can type "ctrl+tab, alt+t, space,
> ctrl+tab, ctrl+tab, alt+y, space, ctrl+tab, alt+e, 45, ctrl+tab,
> alt+p, 78"
And on the CLI you'll have to memorize all of this options, the GUI allow
you to just see them.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:06:59 +0200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 03:58:36 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >> Compare that to a GUI, where you don't even get any options, you just
> >> get what you're given, unless of course you want to go editing
> >> shorcuts to put some arguments in, or using some shoddy built in
> >> configuration tool. Personally, I like complete control over what I'm
> >> doing with my command.
> >
> >What options do you get on the CLI that aren't given you?
>
> Arguments.
Exist in GUI as well.
> Pipes. Redirection.
Are those the same thing? If not please explain the difference.
> Command history.
Not needed because it's not in the GUI nature.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:09:44 +0200
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:My9T6.8045$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9fi8iq$md7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Okay, why I don't like this?
> > Why would the kernel BSOD just because the GUI crash? It should restart
> it,
> > not stop.
>
> Why should it restart it? If the GUI crashes, that means something is
> seriously wrong, and will likely just crash again.
Why should the GUI crashing cause a full system halt?
NT is aimed at servers, not just desktops. This just doesn't makes sense.
Other platforms don't crash if there is a crash in the GUI (well, not
always.)
> > This doesn't sound right, and it's certainly not an excuse.
> > It would crash *anyway* ?
>
> Yes.
Why? What is the reason for this decision?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chicken and egg problem
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:12:45 +0200
"Gerald Meazell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<9fik2t$5te$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > "Gerald Meazell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Just providing backward compatability doesn't mean anything.
> > You have to lure the users to your platform.
> > Not giving backward compatability is a fence they will either trip or
climb
> > over.
>
> Precisely. So why did you post a link to an article whose major assertion
is
> that all you need is backward compatibility and include this commment:
Because it's sort of *implied*?
The article wasn't about how to get people to move to a new platform, it was
about making it *easier* to move to a new platform.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:14:37 +0200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:06:00 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"Fred K Ollinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:9fh3th$mdb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Ayende Rahien (don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >>
> >> : Unlikely, I don't like 9x very much.
> >> : On my system, it takes 4 keystrokes to reach my pictures folder,
frex.
> >>
> >> How is this a gui if you are only using keystrokes? Or are you using
> >> keystrokes+mouse? If so, then this is the slowest way b/c switching
takes
> >> time.
> >
> >I use key strokes to control the GUI.
> >GUI doesn't mean "no keyboard".
>
> It does with a lot of programs.
It doesn't with *good* programs.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is shit
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:19:34 +0100
>> >> Cool printer. What resolution does it do?
>> >
>> > Only 600*600 ;-)
>>
>> Only! LOL! 600x600 laser printouts are always better than 600x600
>> inkjet printouts coz the ink doesn't spread. And I'm still using an
>> HP500
>> (300x300).
>>
>
> Try a newer HP inkjet, like a 900 series. I read in todays news that HP
> had to settle with Pitney-Bowes for $400M for patent infringement on the
> way they get inkjets to print like laser printers.
That would involve me spending money.
When I'm at home, I can usually use my bro's HP 930.
At college, I can usually use my deptartments HP4050.
But I keep the HP500 around for when I'm too lazy to move. At least the
ink is quite cheap :-)
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "stevekimble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Argh - Ballmer
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:14:35 +0100
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> >
> > Charlie Ebert wrote:
> > >
> > > Moronic BULLSHIT EF.
> > >
> > > GPL'd code can be used by anybody in the world.
> > >
> >
> > No, it can´t.
> > It can not be used with other. also free code, like BSD
> >
> > > Microsoft copyrighted code CAN NOT without PAYING A FEE and
> > > then you ONLY get to use the BINARY'S as they won't give you
> > > the source code.
> > >
> > > This is exactly why Microsoft is a CANCER UPON THE WORLD
> > > and the GPL is it's savior.
> > >
> > No, it is MS´s right to get your money if you want to use their code.
> > If it is a pile of shit (as it is), why would you want to use it?
> > MS code is just a pile of horseshit, GPL is cancer.
> > Even if I like the cancer better in this case, it still is.
> >
> > By the way, please stop your shouting (ie CAPS). You look like
> > Aaron Kookis that way, and that jerk is really a moron.
>
> That must be why a Fortune 5 (FIVE) corporation pays me over
> $100,000/year for my mere THOUGHTS and OPINIONS.
Only $100,000? Don't give up the day job, Aaron :)
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > --
> > The last good thing written in C was Schubert's Symphony No. 9.
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
> can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SourceForge hacked!
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:20:46 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Kai Henningsen"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward Rosten) wrote on 03.06.01 in
> <9fbobk$d7d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> >>> >>What's a dalsehood?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >typo(-d +f), presumably.
>> >>>
>> >>> How can you do that? They're on opposite sides of the keyboard.
>> >>
>> >>d & f ? They are right next to each other in QWERTY keyboard.
>> >
>> > Who said I had a qwerty keyboard?
>>
>> No one. They said that dalsehood was typed by someone with a querty
>> keyboard (fairly likely).
>
> What do you have against qwertz keyboards? And I suspect (but dont know)
nothing.
> that azerty keyboards are also similar.
>
> Kai
>
>
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SourceForge hacked!
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:21:36 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Kai Henningsen"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Incidentally ...
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward Rosten) wrote on 03.06.01 in
> <9fbobk$d7d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> /d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont
>> setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d
>> f 5
>> -1 r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0
>> rmoveto}for/s 15 d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r
>> show}for showpage
>
> Error: rangecheck in /roll
>
> Kai
>
You missed out the bracketed text:
-- CUT HERE --
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
%Don't cut here!
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:21:06 GMT
In article <9fieej$snh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No me, I tend to give assignments like:
>
> #include <stdio.h>
> int main(){
> unsigned int intArr[10],i;
> for (i=0;i<10;i++) {
> i[intArr] = !!i;
> printf("%u ",i[intArr]);
> }
> return 0;
> }
>
>
> What is the the output of this program?
I think there's an error in your example. As written, I expect that to
cause a compilation error. 'i' is not an array, yet you access it as
one. Did you mean
> for (i=0;i<10;i++) {
> intArr[i] = !!i;
> printf("%u ",intArr[i]);
?
In that case, the result is
0
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
and the array is superfluous.
> You *see* why I'm not a good teacher? (Although, after one of *my*
> classes, they will be able to read *anyone's* code.)
I would not want you to teach a newbie. }: )
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:23:14 GMT
In article <9fieel$snh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Woofbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> > Who remembers this saying? In computers, every mistake is made three
> > times: once in mainframes, once in minis, and once in micros.
> >
> > I guess it's time to revise that saying:
> >
> > In GUIs, every innovation is made seven times: once on Macintosh, once
> > on Windows, and five times on all the X windows managers. }: )
>
> You forgot Amiga, Be, and XP (total new UI, deserve its own category. They
> even fixed the start button problem that sent Tog raving {but it doesn't
> stay that way if you expand the taskbar, pity} ).
> There was also Xeros, AtheOS, Palm, and maybe CE (does it deserve its own
> category?).
Oh, you're no fun. How can I be expected to make pithy generalizations
if I'm required to list every last operating system there was?
By the way, *you* forgot Newton. So there. :p
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:17:30 +0200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> You can get some dll from winfiles.com that makes the icons of
> pictures an actual thumbnail of the picture itself. It's good if
> you've got a fast computer and a small resolution.
Actually, it's better on NTFS, because explorer has this ability built in,
and if the image is on NTFS, it stores a thumbnail of this photo in a
stream, so it doesn't have to re-calcuate it every time your view the
directory.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:19:16 +0200
"Woofbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> An argument against the Microsoft style of piling tons of rarely used
> features into an already-bloated product.
Are you aware of the 80/20 rule?
Those *aren't* the same 20!
------------------------------
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