Linux-Advocacy Digest #23, Volume #35 Thu, 7 Jun 01 10:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again) (flatfish+++)
Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again) (flatfish+++)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (flatfish+++)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (pip)
Re: Windows advocate of the year. (Donn Miller)
Re: MS at it again ("Donal K. Fellows")
Re: I propose a GPL change... ("Donal K. Fellows")
Re: Silly Gnome DNS lookups ("Donal K. Fellows")
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. ("Chad Myers")
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (the wharf rat)
Re: XP - what's for me? (George P. Nelson)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Chad Myers")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:05:35 GMT
flatfish+++ wrote:
>
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 01:06:55 +0200, "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >"I beleive that this is a hoax. Isn't AOL.exe a vital component to the
> >window's operating system? "
It will be if the AOL/Microsoft deal bundling the AOL client into
XP works out. Of course, there may not be enough room on the XP CD for it.
(Can't give the consumer two CDs, y'know.)
> And the Linvocates expect these people to edit config files and run
> Linux?
No, we expect them to use Windows systems and carry on in
blithe ignorance, then knock on our door asking for help with
their Windows systems.
> Unfortunately the above is the sorry level of computer knowledge out
> there in the world. Just take a wander past the computers in Walmart
> and listen to the questions people are asking the sales staff.
>
> ie: This machine comes with 40 gigabytes of memory right?
On the other hand, in the auto section of Walmart you'll hear more
intelligent questions. Why is that?
Chris
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:06:10 GMT
On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:51:59 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Well, that doesn't say a lot for Windows98 then does it?
In that particular instance no, but Linksys is really the problem
because other cards work fine with Windows as well as Linux.
>Why would you want a token ring card in the first place?
It was for a friend of mine, his office uses TokenRing,
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:10:55 GMT
On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:44:11 +0000, "Gary Hallock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The point is he should't have to know. The point is that notepad fails
>for lots of reasons other than Linux text files. The point is that if
>Windows would just get out the 60s and default to wordpad then there
>would be no problem.
I agree with this.
> The point is that Linux should not have to tailor its
>install files to some ancient version of notepad. The point is that this
>is a Windows problem, not a Liniux problem.
So Linux is trying to convert Windows users but yet can't even put the
relevant Readme and doc files in formats that can be read by a user
who is more than likely running Windows and attempting to learn Linux.
That really makes sense.
Throw another obstacle in the way to get them frustrated.
If it were up to me I would have a folder named "NEW_USER_LOOK_HERE"
and have copies of all of the install stuff right in one folder
instead of scattered all over the place. And all of the readme's would
be txt files and the How-To's would be text as well as .pdf files.
But that would make things too easy now wouldn't it?
No wonder Linux CD's get thrown in the trash before they even have a
chance.
>Gary
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:18:02 GMT
On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:16:35 -0600, Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Wait till you have to enter your registration key into the toilet
before you can use it.
All 42 digits of it :)
Talk about pissing people off.
Or on, depending on how you look at it.
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:27:58 +0100
> Also consider the fact that while Americans can buy a gun and serve in
> the military at age 18, they can't even sit down at a bar and order a
> beer. Young people I know think it's a stupid law (with good reason),
> but do they vote? No, but do they ever bitch! So please don't tell me
> that being born an American gives you a biological intuition about how
> to properly function in a democracy.
We have similar idiotic laws. By 17, you can drive a car and start a
family, but you can't vote or own property.
And heaven help anyone who byus a house built on a public right of way.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:41:36 +0100
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > Also consider the fact that while Americans can buy a gun and serve in
> > the military at age 18, they can't even sit down at a bar and order a
> > beer. Young people I know think it's a stupid law (with good reason),
> > but do they vote? No, but do they ever bitch! So please don't tell me
> > that being born an American gives you a biological intuition about how
> > to properly function in a democracy.
>
> We have similar idiotic laws. By 17, you can drive a car and start a
> family, but you can't vote or own property.
Who cares ? At that age I was too busy trying to get some sex to notice
a few years difference :)
> And heaven help anyone who buys a house built on a public right of way.
Yes, can you imagine having these rambler types parading through you
garden and commenting on your begonias? Ekkk :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:06:08 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows advocate of the year.
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> I also do not believe that Linux is perfect, and it has a long way to go to
> catch up to Windows in basic useability on the desktop.
I agree. I think that Linux and FreeBSD make really excellent server
OSes, but as a desktop system, Windows 2000 and 98 are still better. The
deal is that Windows was pretty much designed to be a desktop OS from
the ground up, and the Win32 API supports a desktop OS very well. I
think that stability is compromised, but most desktop users don't mind
rebooting if something goes wrong, as long as their work isn't being
trashed while the crash occurs.
Desktop users will get bored if they are running a unix system such as
FreeBSD or Linux, and it doesn't have the features, ease of use, and
application support that Windows has. Long uptimes will not impress
people if they are bored with the OS.
In fact, even crappy Win ME doesn't crash that often for me, but the
point is that a bad app (in the C. Petzold sense) can wreak havoc on the
kernel, so it's no good for a server.
That's why I like Mac OS X. This thing combines a nice desktop system
with an open source system underneath. So, you get the best of both
worlds (open source and a great desktop system). The best part is that
it can also run legacy Mac OS (like OS-9 for example, AFAIK) apps as
well. That aspect ordinary desktop users will like.
Well, Mac OS-X isn't perfect, but it's a decent compromise between
desktop and open source. By open source, I'm referring to the unix
system Mac OS-X is built upon, which would be Darwin. I believe that
it's also possible to run Darwin on a Mac w/ XFree86 just like any other
open source system. And yes. Darwin is open source. Well, it's prime
mission is for the foundation of Mac OS X, and not to be the ultimate
open source unix FreeBSD and Linux are, but it's open source
nonetheless, and I can't see this thing being too terrible as a server
OS.
Another reason Mac OS X is a better desktop system than FreeBSD or Linux
is that it has a built-in consistent GUI/Windowing system like Windows
has in Aqua. This ensures that all apps have a consistent look and
feel, and operate consistently. As a FreeBSD user, I will openly admit
that I like the ability to choose whatever toolkit I want, and I can
choose whatever window manager I want, etc. But, it sure does get
butt-ugly with all those different toolkits. They look something like a
motely crew, and they don't have consistent cut-n-paste mechanisms
across toolkits, save for the basic Xlib mouse selection cut and paste
mechanism, of course. So, yes, I will agree that as a desktop FreeBSD
and Linux are not as good as Windows.
I guess the point of all this is that if Linux or FreeBSD want to
capture the desktop, it'll probably take a greater effort than just
slapping a set of GUI libs on top of X. In fact, you can run X servers
on any platform, and on Windows, you can compile XFree86 with Cygwin
now. This means you can compile X apps on your Windows box with Cygwin,
and then run them locally with the X server somehow. So, I suppose
desktop systems (even FreeBSD and Linux ones) don't need to depend on
X. If they both designed their own GUI/Windowing system like Apple did
with Darwin/Aqua, I think they could produce a much better desktop
system. Plus, you could always run your X apps inside a seperate X
server, and you could still develop and run your X apps, even though X
would no longer serve as the main graphics system.
Sometimes server and desktop OSes are non-sequitor, but it's still great
that each OS fulfills its own little niche.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS at it again
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:13:36 +0100
Ed Allen wrote:
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Patent infringement is *NOT* copyright infringement. Violating a patent
>> doesn't have anything to do with "stealing code".
>
> How can a software patent infringement not involve code ?
There is code involved, sure, but it is not (necessarily) stolen. Patents
offer *very* wide protection (which is why they should not be easy to get)
and anything that uses the same invention is going to be subject to patent
rules. This isn't too bad if patents are for genuine innovations (which
is their intended use) but there has been a suspicion for a while that the
USPTO is not very good at figuring out whether a patent really should be
granted in the software arena...
Anyway, the upshot of patent law is that you can infringe someone's patent
on some software concept without ever seeing their code or even reading
documentation on the patented thing (and that includes the patent itself.)
So Erik is (presumably) right in this case.
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- This may scare your cat into premature baldness, but Sun are not the only
sellers of Unix. -- Anthony Ord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I propose a GPL change...
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:02:24 +0100
Dave Martel wrote:
> Since Microsoft so despises the GPL, I propose that the GPL be changed
> to prevent the use of GPL'd software on any Microsoft OS! ;o)
You have, of course, missed the point of free software entirely.
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- This may scare your cat into premature baldness, but Sun are not the only
sellers of Unix. -- Anthony Ord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Silly Gnome DNS lookups
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:15:11 +0100
Richard Thrippleton wrote:
> Now it is curious as to _why_ there's a DNS lookup needed. Anybody
> here got any ideas? Suppose you could try looking in the source code.
<guessing> Something to do with CORBA?
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- This may scare your cat into premature baldness, but Sun are not the only
sellers of Unix. -- Anthony Ord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:40:46 -0500
"flatfish+++" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 01:06:55 +0200, "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.jokeaday.com/7letters.shtml
> >
> >It's on a mailing list I'm subscribe to.
> >The post-master sent an email about AOL.EXE being a virus, and urge people
> >to delete it, and post some of the replies in the above URL.
> >
> >Here are a couple of the most amusing replies:
> >
> >"I beleive that this is a hoax. Isn't AOL.exe a vital component to the
> >window's operating system? "
> >
> >"No!! Any file ending in .EXE is a necessary file to your computer. Wherever
> >you got that information they're wrong. You need that file. I have learned
> >this the wrong way. Don't delete any file ending in .EXE Please pass this on
> >to everybody."
> >
>
>
> And the Linvocates expect these people to edit config files and run
> Linux?
>
> Unfortunately the above is the sorry level of computer knowledge out
> there in the world. Just take a wander past the computers in Walmart
> and listen to the questions people are asking the sales staff.
>
> ie: This machine comes with 40 gigabytes of memory right?
-or-
Does this machine come with one of those new 28.8 gigabit cable modems
that I can just hook into my phone line?
-c
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (the wharf rat)
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:46:38 +0000 (UTC)
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And the Linvocates expect these people to edit config files and run
>Linux?
Teach a man to click and he can compute for a day. Teach a
man to edit config files and he can compute for a lifetime.
------------------------------
From: George P. Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: XP - what's for me?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 13:57:47 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> The largest thing inside MS's XP is it's software
>> piracy prevention, detection and reporting features.
>
> As per charlies typical tricks, he doesn't clarify what he means by
> "XP".
> Is it Windows XP? Office XP?
>
>> Your paying $300 + dollars for an upgrade so that
>> MS can spy on you. Sell your name on a list of
>> software pirates to be prosecuted by attorneys.
>> Interfere in your everyday privacy.
>
> He says this without even understanding that XP's activation doesn't
> require a name to be used at all.
>
>> That is what 30% of XP is.
>
> A random figure pulled out of thin air.
>
>> Questions!
>
> Is that a sentance?
>
>> Should it be legal for MS to force all users
>> of Windows to submit to inhouse spying even
>> if it is in their EULA and they agreed?
>
> Nobody is spied upon. The question is irrelevant because it's not
> true.
You Do Not know that for sure any more than I do! Maybe you could
explain to the world including China what an NSAKEY__ is doing buried
in someMS OS update (Iforget the exact particulars on this).
You are basicaly trusting in the word of Microsoft here! Before I Trust
anybody's word I like to check their record on honesty.. looking at
Judge Jackson's feelings after presiding over the antitrust trial Igot
the feeling hey Might be A smidgen better than Bill Clinton!
It's not surprising that a LOT of people don't trust Microsoft,
astheir track record is really pretty piss poor.
>
>> Do you believe MS should have the license
>> to essentially take over the internet
>> with .NET and replace the current world
>> powers who are regulating it's functionality?
>
> Do you see MS owning domain name registrars? Do you see them owning
> internet backbones like Sprint or Worldcom or AT&T? Do you see them
> owning
> ICANN or NSI? Do you see any way for them to usurp this power without
> owning all such bodies? I certainly don't.
>
>> Do you believe foreign powers such as China
>> will eventually outlaw all Mircrosoft
>> products from their country to prevent
>> the US and Microsoft from dominating
>> the internet and making the world
>> an American's only club?
They will if they believe it's in their national interest. It wouldn't
surprise me one bit if they did this even though it would cause them
trouble in trade relations with the U.S. even with making some
exceptions for their own cyber spies and info-warfare types.
>
> It wouldn't be much of an internet if each country cuts themselves off
> from the rest of the world, now would it?
George Nelson
-A Linux desktop outpost on North Carolina's Outer Banks.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:00:15 -0500
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Michael Vester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Christopher L. Estep" wrote:
> >
> > > > How many UNIX geeks know about SAMBA (a slick little utility that
enables
> > > > UNIX/Linux clients to co-exist in Windows-based networks)? Here's the
most
> > > > telling argument about SAMBA: it's not only included with any decent
distro
> > > > of UNIX/Linux, SAMBA even works against Windows *2000*-based networks.
> > > > Microsoft could choose to wreck SAMBA, but hasn't (and won't, either).
> > > >
> > > They have tried and failed.
> >
> > When was this?
>
> Service Pack 2 for Windows 2000
>
> Microsoft made a change to the smb code that attempted to trigger an
> error message that NT4 delivers to clients:
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=5d466f1bae7e3313,8&se
ekm=9ecrpv%24fv3%241%40news.valinux.com#p
Yeah, I'm sure MS was sitting there thinking "Wonder how we could break Samba"
know that the Samba team would fix whatever went wrong the next day.
What's more likely the reality is that Samba is so fragile and poorly written
and even a slight change in MS' code breaks Samba. This has been the case since
day one.
MS fixes a bug related to something else, Samba breaks and suddenly it's a
big conspiracy.
-c
------------------------------
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