Linux-Advocacy Digest #43, Volume #35 Fri, 8 Jun 01 05:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("JS \\ PL")
Re: I propose a GPL change... ("surrender")
Re: UI Importance (GreyCloud)
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows advocate of the year. ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Why homosexuals are a threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft ("Stuart Fox")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("David Brown")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 03:15:43 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Christopher L. Estep in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed, 06 Jun 2001
> >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Wed, 30 May 2001 19:11:23 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> >> ("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> >> Besides, you claimed that Windows is ubiquitous because it is the
> >better
> >> >> O/S. If NT/2K is better than 9x, why is not everybody using that
than?
> >>
> >> >Price, Win2K cost more than 9x.
> >> >NT is also aimed more at bussiness, and there are some problems with
> >> >compatability with some software.
> >> >And NT's drivers can be a lot of hassle.
> >> >
> >> >But I agree with you, everyone who uses a 9x should stop and use an NT
> >based
> >> >product.
> >>
> >> Which will cost them how much? They'll have to fork out for: NT, a
> >> bigger hard disk probably, more RAM, a faster processor just to make
> >> it all work. Or, they could just get linux, spending absolutely
> >> NOTHING.
> >
> >Bigger hard drive?
> >Hmmm...the typical replacement hard drive for *desktops* is 40 GB.
Windows
> >2000 *Advanced Server*, with all bells and whistles, will use maybe
> >one-tenth of that (about *four* gigabytes). Such a drive costs maybe
$150
> >US today, at worst.
> >
> >More RAM?
> >
> >Let's see...I bought 512 MB of PC-133 SDRAM for less than $200 US in
> >March...and since then prices have *dropped*.
> >
> >Faster CPU?
> >
> >1 GHz P-III (overkill for not only desktops, but most servers) cost me
$290
> >US (again, March 2001)...it's almost *half* that today.
> >
> >If you have a P-II, Celeron or Athlon processor, 128 MB of RAM or more,
and
> >1 GB of free disk space, you could *easily* run Windows 2000 Professional
> >today.
> >
> >Linux is *only* free if you download it. Books that include Linux (often
an
> >older out-of-date version) still cost (about 1/3 that of a Windwos 98 SE
or
> >ME upgrade).
> >
> >You will still need the hard drive space for Linux (unless you are going
to
> >blank Windows altogether, which no newbie would do), and a typical distro
> >will *easily* eat as much space (if not more) as Windows 2000 *Server*
(and
> >*more* than 2000 Professional).
> >
> >Here's a cold fact from *personal* experience: I recently upgraded at
work
> >to Windows 2000 Pro SP1 (from NT 4 SP 5). I subject it to loads that
would
> >(and *did*) bring NT 4 to its *knees*. Daily. And the OS didn't even
> >quiver.
> >
> >The hardware? A P-III 450 with 128 MB of RAM. (As you now know, *less*
than
> >my home system.)
> >
> >Most users now have more CPU power at home (where they usually run 9x or
ME)
> >than they do at the office (where they usually run NT or 2000
Professional).
> >
> >My own desktop isn't even *leading edge* today for *home* use.
> >
> >And on the subject of pricing, I agree, Microsoft has seriously screwed
up.
> >I have, in fact, been taking them to task for it (and will continue to do
> >so).
>
> Hard drive space for bloatware: $150
> RAM for crapware: $200
> CPU for the next version: $290
>
> Monopoly crapware: Priceless.
Oh... looks like it's time to head on over to pricewatch dot com.
Hard drive space for bloatware:
Well there an 80gb HD for 208.00 what's that work out to..... $2.60 to store
Windows XP.
RAM 128mb for $21.00 (my god it's getting cheap) But most people already
have at least 64mb if they are currently running Win98. So I'll just order
64mb from Connect Computers for a whole - $9.00
I'm up to $11.60
Now I need a MONSTER, state of the art, 233mhz processor (actually I'm
currently running XP beta on a 233 w/ 60mb EDO RAM and it runs fine)
Looks like a place called Kahlon will sell me a 233 for $27.00 (that hurts)
I'm almost out $40.00 upgrading my system to accomodate Windows XP!
DAMN YOU MICROSOFT!! DAMN YOUUUUUUUU!!!!!!
------------------------------
From: "surrender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I propose a GPL change...
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 07:31:22 GMT
In article <79ET6.8765$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote something like:
[snip]
>
> You cannot patent code, you can only patent algorithms.
>
> There is much GPL'd and free software that violates patents as well, for
> instance vorbis ogg is claimed to still violate the mp3 patents.
>
perhaps but at least they don't charge for it....
--
Greets,
surrender
--
$ apt-get moo
(__)
(oo)
/------\/
/ | ||
* /\---/\
~~ ~~
...."Have you mooed today?"...
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:39:28 -0700
Josiah Fizer wrote:
>
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:56:46 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Dave Martel wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:56:00 -0700, Josiah Fizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>Still leaving lousy shell scripting and a "choice" of only one shell.
> >> >>
> >> >>BTW has MS implemented *real* regular-expression matching yet?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >How is there only one choic of shells? I use TCSH on my Windows 2k
> >> >box.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure if third-party add-ons should count, especially those
> >> from the *nix world.
> >>
> >> What do the judges say? <g>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I see. Under Solaris I have a choice of several shells that can be
> >assigned to a number of users on the system. Under root I stay with
> >sh. User: I use bash. I could use csh, but bash is my preference.
>
> Am I the only one who gets bugged by having to list the shells used in
> /etc/shells or FTP breaks? This is a source of constant trouble for me
> as users start installing third party shells into our E250s.
It should'nt be a problem on a Sun system... but I've had better.
VMS just used DCL and that was it. Less administrative headaches that
way.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:55:51 -0400
Rick wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >
> > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ray Fischer
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote
> > > on Wed, 16 May 2001 22:30:16 GMT
> > > <9duuvt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >Robert W Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>And where is your evidence that people have no choice over their homosexual
> > > >>behavior?
> > > >
> > > >Yeah! You could choose to be interested in men so it's obvious that
> > > >homosexuals could choose to be interested in women.
> > > >
> > > >Right?
> > >
> > > One could mimic such behavior to avoid detection; such has been done
> > > in the past, as I understand it -- even to the point of a
> > > loveless, or at least sexless, marriage.
> > >
> > > This no more makes the homosexual a het, anymore than a woolen overcoat
> > > makes a wolf a sheep.
> >
> > What part of "IT's the BEHAVIOR(*)," do you not understand?????
> >
> > (*) not the desire
> >
>
> So, its the anal intercourse you dont like, or only if its between two
> men?
it's the SPREADING OF DISEASE which I don't like.
>
> --
> Rick
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:57:02 -0400
pip wrote:
>
> Rick wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >
> > > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ray Fischer
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote
> > > > on Wed, 16 May 2001 22:30:16 GMT
> > > > <9duuvt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > >Robert W Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >>And where is your evidence that people have no choice over their homosexual
> > > > >>behavior?
> > > > >
> > > > >Yeah! You could choose to be interested in men so it's obvious that
> > > > >homosexuals could choose to be interested in women.
> > > > >
> > > > >Right?
> > > >
> > > > One could mimic such behavior to avoid detection; such has been done
> > > > in the past, as I understand it -- even to the point of a
> > > > loveless, or at least sexless, marriage.
> > > >
> > > > This no more makes the homosexual a het, anymore than a woolen overcoat
> > > > makes a wolf a sheep.
> > >
> > > What part of "IT's the BEHAVIOR(*)," do you not understand?????
> > >
> > > (*) not the desire
> > >
> >
> > So, its the anal intercourse you dont like, or only if its between two
> > men?
>
> Look, sorry Rick but it's all my fault. I said to Aaron "No, I'm just
> not into that", but he insisted. No means no Aaron, and I'm sorry that
> we had to get the animal protection unit involved. That is the real
> reason that Aaron was arrested (not in CompUSA). OK, I know. Maybe
> having the goat in the same room was just "asking for it" as he said -
> but hell, I like goats. And now what do I see - all this attitude from
> him. I just want to say "Look Aaron, you are still a real man in my eyes
> - no need for all this mouthing off". I may even call you, but I don't
> want your friend involved again. After all these days you have to be
> careful. You have had you tests back right Aaron? Good news - phew.
Fascinating.
You should talk to a therapist about "projection"
>
> Oh btw Aaron, when I said that I was an "Animal Lover" I think you
> misinterpreted what I meant. But the Vet prescribed some cream and we
> are assured that the swelling will go down. In any case DrSquare said he
> would keep you company, so I don't know where all this attitude is
> coming (pardon the pun) from.
>
> And that .sig Aaron - it's *so* just not you. Marvin will fix you up
> with a new "style". He is a very nice man. Just our type.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:17:14 -0400
mlw wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >
> > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ray Fischer
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote
> > > on Wed, 16 May 2001 22:30:16 GMT
> > > <9duuvt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >Robert W Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>And where is your evidence that people have no choice over their homosexual
> > > >>behavior?
> > > >
> > > >Yeah! You could choose to be interested in men so it's obvious that
> > > >homosexuals could choose to be interested in women.
> > > >
> > > >Right?
> > >
> > > One could mimic such behavior to avoid detection; such has been done
> > > in the past, as I understand it -- even to the point of a
> > > loveless, or at least sexless, marriage.
> > >
> > > This no more makes the homosexual a het, anymore than a woolen overcoat
> > > makes a wolf a sheep.
> >
> > What part of "IT's the BEHAVIOR(*)," do you not understand?????
> >
> > (*) not the desire
>
> Normally I would not even touch such a string of posts. What two adults do in
> privacy is no ones business. Who gives a flying fl&^%k what two people do
> together? Seriously what does it matter?
When two adults spread communicable diseases like Hepatitis and Tuberculosis,
it is a matter of PUBLIC HEALTH and is EVERYBODY's business.
>
> This is something I just don't get, nor think I ever will. Who are you to have
> any opinion about what another human being does, which does not adversely
> affect you or anyone else?
>
> For the record, I'm not gay, and think the idea of being with another man is
> repugnant. Those are my personal feelings and it certainly is not my, nor
> anyone else's, place to judge anyone based on personal feelings.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows advocate of the year.
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:16:47 +1200
"Michael Vester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> NT/W2K should only run one application per server. You need a separate
> computer for file sharing, printing, DHCP, Exchange. Put more than one
> application on a server, and you will have problems. Also, NT/W2K servers
> should number about 1 for every 20 users.
With your servers separated that way, you should be able to support between
500 - 1000 users on NT/2K, without daily/weekly reboots.
> How NT/W2K ever managed to pass its self off as a stable server platform
> will continue to baffle me.
We consistently run servers with at least three monthly uptimes. Of course,
YMMV
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are a threat to heterosexuals
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:19:30 -0400
mlw wrote:
>
> flatfish+++ wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:50:05 -0400, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >For the record, I'm not gay, and think the idea of being with another man is
> > >repugnant. Those are my personal feelings and it certainly is not my, nor
> > >anyone else's, place to judge anyone based on personal feelings.
> >
> > Wait until they try to teach "alternate lifestyles" to your children
> > in school.
>
> Fear makes a person small.
We have a special word for people who don't recognize danger............
DEAD!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:28:20 +1200
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> That isn't BS, either. Stac and Citrix did both get screwed by MS, just
> like Apple. Phillip's comments get skewed because he seems to believe
> that Apple won their suite (they lost) and that it had to do with some
> 'embedded copyright', rather than the 'look and feel copyright' that the
> case actually pertained to.
>
Citrix seem to be doing rather well for themselves, for someone who was
screwed by MS
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:24:06 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote in message ...
>Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:52:06
>>On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:44:39 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen Edwards)) wrote:
>>
>>>>Stephen Edwards wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>No, I'm a proud Yank. And the very notion that
>>>>>a person should not be proud of his or her nation
>>>>>is absurd. Everyone should be proud of their
>>>>>heritage, and their home.
>>>>
>>>>Why? It's just where you born. It's not like you achieved anything. Your
>>>>parents fucked, and out you popped. It could have been anywhere. So just
>>>>keep that image in mind, next time you feel patriotic, just visualise
>>>>your father hunched over your mother. Which is all it comes down to,
>>>>really.
>>>
>>>Remember that, when the Chinese police
>>>are knocking at your door, and intend to
>>>take you away for questioning.
>>>
>>>Again, spoken like a true communist.
>>
>>You really are paranoid and fucked up.
>
>Why? Because he actually feels that democracy and freedom are better
>than oppression of the individual and communism?
No, that is not the problem. The problem is this ridiculous idea that if
you don't salute your country's flag first thing every morning, then you are
automatically a communist and should move to China. True freedom (the
founding principle of America) is about choosing the ideals and philosophies
you want, and being free to express these ideals and live them out. The
idea of some American claiming that the American political system is the
only free system, and insulting those who do not support it, is just as
repulsive as any other political oppression. I don't think Stephen realises
that when someone says they are not particularly found of their country or
its system of government, it does not mean that they automatically are
supporters of another country's system, nor even that they do not support
their own country. An American may think the US political system is
oppresive of human rights, yet still believe it to be the best in the world.
>
>Sorry, he is correct. There is nothing at all wrong with recognizing
>the superiority of your local group of monkeys. Inventing it out of
>whole cloth is fascism, true, but we aren't discussing whether being
>communist or being paranoid is worse. We are discussing, I think,
>whether patriotism is a good thing, and indeed it is.
>
In itself, there is nothing wrong with supporting your own monkey tribe, nor
is there anything wrong with being happy with where you are. But
"recognizing the superiority of your local group of monkeys"? To call
yourself "superior" is to call everyone outside that group "inferior" merely
because they are not in that group. Supposing your group is that of white
males? Is there still nothing wrong with treating everyone outside it as
inferior? Supposing your group is that of young white German males with
blond hair and blue eyes in the 1930's ? Is there still nothing wrong with
considering everyone else as inferior? As long as your opinions have no
bearing on your speach or actions, then you could well argue that there is
nothing wrong here - but who can believe themselves to be superior without
beginning to treat others as inferior?
As with many things, patriotism can be good in moderation. It helps bind a
people together to act in their common good, and in extreme examples such as
war, it is vital when a country is invaded. But excessive patriotism is a
source of much harm - it becomes an easy excuse for actions that are not
really helping your country, and are not supported by the people of the
country. Many terrorist bombers, for example, love their country (or
religion, or whatever) so much that they commit attrocities in their name -
their excessive patriotism has robbed them of the rationality to decide if
they really are doing good for their country. Many of the US's campaigns in
other countries have been similarly misguided - destroying other countries
while trying to force American "freedom" upon them. (The US is by no means
alone here, it is just an example - the USSR's attacks on Afganistan, or the
old European countries' colonizing invations are just the same).
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