Linux-Advocacy Digest #66, Volume #35 Fri, 8 Jun 01 21:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (GreyCloud)
Re: Here's a switch for a change (Terry Porter)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (GreyCloud)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: Here's a switch for a change (Terry Porter)
Re: Will MS get away with this one? (Ian Pulsford)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (GreyCloud)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (GreyCloud)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Bob Hauck)
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (Bob Hauck)
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (Bob Hauck)
Re: UI Importance ("Nik Simpson")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Rotten168)
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Rotten168)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:04:49 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said Christopher L. Estep in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed, 06 Jun 2001
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Real word processor? I thought he was talking about Word. As an expert
> >> in PC wordprocessors, I can assure you that monopoly crapware, not lack
> >> of competence, is the problem here.
> >
> >Define *real wordprocessor*, Max.
>
> Define it in any reasonable way yourself, and I will probably agree.
> My point was merely to exclude 'monopoly crapware' like Word from any
> consideration of competitive merit, as it has none. (If it did, no
> illegal plan to monopolize would be necessary in order to make money
> selling it.)
>
> Any definition is debatable, of course, but that is beside the point,
> unless your intent is to remove all definition of some particular word.
> Would you agree that a text editor like IBM's EDIT is not a 'real
> wordprocessor'? Would you agree that a page layout program such as
> PageMaker is not a 'real wordprocessor'?
>
> But I guess the point is plain: you consider Word a "real
> wordprocessor". I would, as well, if it weren't monopoly crapware. I
> used to really like it, in fact, but it has gone steadily downhill since
> version 2.0 on Windows. Anyone experienced with a *real wordprocessor*
> recognizes why modern version of Word don't qualify, though the
> particular complaints they will have vary. Certainly anyone who relies
> professional on wordprocessing would prefer some other product, if it
> were economically feasible to avoid monopoly crapware.
>
> >Word Perfect (or, as I call it today,
> >WordNotSoPerfect)? Been there, done that (in fact, I *taught* WordPerfect
> >before switching whole hog to Word back in 1995).
>
> I taught both, and many others, back in 1991-1996.
>
> >Star Office? (Max, it's available for Windows (and it's still free), but
> >can't compare feature-wise to Office 97, let alone either 2000 *or* the
> >just-released XP.)
>
> Well, the wordprocessor part of it, maybe. Whether an integrated
> package which includes a wordprocessor can qualify is a separate issue,
> dependent on context. And I still have no clue what your context is,
> outside of some defensive reaction you have to my denigration of Word.
>
> >SmartSuite? BWAHAHAHA! 1-2-3 is a joke; WordPro is worse than *WordPad*, for
> >crying out loud; and there is *still* no decent mail client.
>
> Apparently, your context is to prove your rather tentative grasp of
> software applications. 1-2-3 was not the wordprocessor in Lotus
> SmartSuite, and WordPro (which was) won a number of awards, beating out
> even Word for Windows 2.0, and this early in the history of the Windows
> platform, when NOBODY could get anything right except Microsoft. Why
> you bring up mail clients when we are discussing wordprocessors is,
> again, something of a mystery.
>
> >Just *try* to assure me of your competence with a *real wordprocessor*, Max
> >(and tell me exactly which one, please!)
>
> All of them. I've taught courses in at least a dozen versions of both
> Microsoft Word and WordPerfect on DOS, Windows, and Macintosh (and
> Wordperfect on Unix, as well), as well as about a dozen other
> wordprocessors. And, of course, just to assure you I am not some
> specialist who is over-analyzing wordprocessors, I've also taught all
> the various spreadsheet and business graphics programs, as well as quite
> a few database systems, and hosts of other applications.
>
> In each case, the monopoly crapware is the worst possible alternative,
> provided monopoly through leverage and forced bundling. So when I
> exclude Word as a "real" wordprocessor, it is not because it is not a
> real program that is a wordprocessor, but because it is not competitive
> enough to be compared to real wordprocessors like WordPerfect.
>
> Unless you are naive and don't really understand how bad Word actually
> is, as a wordprocessor. Not uncommon, even for people who know Word and
> some other wordprocessor fairly well. Rarely do they have the scope of
> requirements, knowledge, and experience to judge the overall competitive
> value of a product in the marketplace. And given that blindness, they
> often, like yourself, confuse MS's market dominance for something other
> than the result of criminal behavior.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Hey Max! Got a question for you: If I buy Corels' latest offering of
Quattro Pro 10, will the data from Quattro Pro 5 be exportable?
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:12:15 -0700
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> >> And it will run like a dead whale at that speed. I think you're more
> >> likely to need a 500Mhz, which of course will require a new
> >> motherboard. So that's what, another £200?
> >
> > Windows XP isn't processor intensive. My 233 mhz hovers around 6%
> > processor usage 99.9 % of it's life.
>
> Good lord! My Linux box (a P133) seems to run on 0.1% to 0.5% most of the
> time. What on earth dows XP spend 6% of the time doing?
>
>
HEHEHHE.... reporting back to Microsoft headquarters keeping an eye on
him!
:-)
> >> >I'm almost out $40.00 upgrading my system to accomodate Windows XP!
> >> >
> >> >DAMN YOU MICROSOFT!! DAMN YOUUUUUUUU!!!!!!
> >>
> >> Yeah, £300, plus the cost of the OS on top of that. Not QUITE as cheap
> >> as you make it out to be.
> >
> > Cheaper actually because I didn't spend a dime on hardware to install
> > WinXP beta. Most of the rest of the world will not have to spend a dime
> > on hardware to install it either. If your sitting on a box with less
> > than 60 mb of RAM and less than 1 gb of free hard drive space, and less
> > than a 233 mhz processor. NOT having windows XP isn't your biggest
> > problem.
>
> Well I've got a P133. I think not having windows is a big advantage. I
> would also say that if I was on a dual 866 w/.5 GB RAM, too.
>
> -Ed
>
> --
> (You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
>
> /d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
> r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
> d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Here's a switch for a change
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 08 Jun 2001 23:48:54 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:22:57 GMT, flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just got back from an early morning visit to the local CompUSA and
> while browsing the aisles this guy and his wife come in carrying what
> appears to be a PC and a box containing Windows98ME upgrade.
>
> He's demanding to talk to the store manager because Windows wiped out
> all of his data which contained some kind of a web based research
> project (best I could gather in between screams).
>
> They plug in the system and use a display on the shelf and
> keyboard/mouse and sure enough when he boots up the entire system
> freezes with a BSOD complaining about corrupt files.
> Of course the idiot had no current back up and he said everything was
> fine until he installed the Win98me upgrade which he paid $125.00 for,
> so he said.
>
> This guy was going ballistic and putting on quite a show and when he
> started screaming about how Windows sucks and CompUSA should be sued
> for selling inferior programs and so forth someone said why don't you
> run Linux?
>
> Another person picked up RedHat from the shelf and handed to him and
> the thing ended when the manager evidently gave him the program for
> free if he would take his system and leave.
> This guy was also HUGE at about 6'5" or more and 275lbs at least.
>
> I thought it was so funny I almost forgot what I went there for in the
> first place.
>
Oh Flatty, you're SUCH a tease ;-)
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:19:57 -0700
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:26:18 +0200, Ayende Rahien <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > "Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> >> Max could easily be running Agent under Wine for Linux, and you wouldnt
> >> know. He could have modified his headers.
> >>
> >> But hes using Windows, and Agent, so what ?
> >
> > I recall him bragging about getting Linux with a new machine some time ago.
> > What happened to it?
> >
> >
>
> How would I know ?
>
> Why would I care, a Linux advocate is a Linux advocate to me, whatever OS
> they use. Some Linux advocates don't use Linux, and they don't have to.
>
> On the other hand, Some Wintrolls use Linux. Am I supposed to have so
> little ability to discern, that I can't tell the difference ?
>
> Wintrolls have often accused Linuxers of attacking anyone who uses
> Windows, because we *hate* Windows, but this has never been true.
>
> And this post is my proof.
>
> --
> Kind Regards from Terry
> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
> Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
You should see the Wintrolls over at comp.os.mac.advocacy. Ever since
OS X came out, all of a sudden the room was full of trolls.
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: 8 Jun 2001 23:50:57 GMT
I'm glad that you're beginning to understand the shortcomings of analogies
and will bear that in mind in the future.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Here's a switch for a change
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 08 Jun 2001 23:51:49 GMT
On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:12:04 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Further, his data isn't gone. Just the OS is corrupted.
>
Hahahah Eric, this sounds just like trying to placate a man
whos car has been stolen...
" Your car isnt really gone, its just that you don't have
the use of it any more" ;-)
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:07:48 +1000
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Will MS get away with this one?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html
>
> --
> Over 100 security bugs in Microsoft SW last year. An infamous
> record. The worst offending piece of SW, by far, IIS. 2001 isn't
> looking any better.
You realise that nobody will ever be able to trust content displayed by
a M$ browser after this. A very cunning plan though; M$ fails to take
control of internet content hosted on webservers, so they take control
on the browser. I suspect that this feature will be turned off by savvy
enough individuals. I want to see the links, I don't want every second
word being a link to M$ or some porn site. How long will it be before
IE begins editing out certain words with suitable M$ replacements from
webpages? No thanks, I wan't to trust what I'm looking at is what's on
the webserver.
IanP
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:31:24 -0700
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:03:36 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > ("Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> > >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >> >> Since when does it have to be open source?
> > >> >
> > >> >Because Penguinistas live in a world where everything should be free
> > >> >and everyone's happy and roses grow everywhere =)
> > >>
> > >> What the fuck is a "Penguinista"?
> > >
> > >Militant, rabid Linux defender/supporter. It's not a derogatory
> > >term, but it has become one somewhat.
> >
> > Who the fuck came up with a term like that?
>
> It's pretty standard. Anyone who is a militant rabid defender
> of something is generally called a <term>inista.
>
> -c
Therefore, that would make you a Windowinista... Billyinista...
Gatesinista....
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:37:25 -0700
Daniel Johnson wrote:
>
> But MS needed an edge- some way for their
> product to be *better* than Suns. Otherwise
> nobody would use it; why sacrifice what portability
> Sun can give you if you gain nothing thereby?
>
> For WFC and J++ to take off they needed to be
> better than Sun's offerings, and delegates offered
> a chance to do that.
>
> Just re-implementing Java exactly like
> Sun's Java is a ticket to nowhere. It can
> never have any advantage over Sun's
> Java, since at best it is identical- and
> more likely it has some flaws.
>
And watch the tide turn when MS gets out of beta with C#.
The shoe will somehow fit on the other foot all of a sudden.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:44:03 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 23:40:02 GMT, Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just look at what the recording industry did to DATs, they killed that
> format, The Film industry wasn't that lucky with Video Tapes.
And a good thing for them it was, too. How much income do the studios
get from tape rentals anyway? For many films, more than they make at
the theater. Another corporation gets dragged kicking and screaming
into the future.
> Ahh, you know more than me, since I'm not a pirate. All I remember is
> they were taking the programmer to court.
DeCSS didn't really do much to enable large-scale commercial piracy,
since DVD's can be copied bit for bit without decoding them. Even the
excuse that it enabled sending perfect copies over the Internet is a
bit feeble given how long it would take to download a full DVD even on
a cable modem, never mind on the 56K modem that 80% of the Internet is
still using.
What DeCSS _did_ do was mess up the MPAA's marketing scheme whereby
different areas of the world get charged different prices and have
different release schedules. It also threw a monkey wrench into their
plan to charge lots of license fees for their "technology".
It was never about piracy, really. That's just the reason they gave
to make it look reasonable that they would be taking a 15-year-old to
court for writing a piece of software. It is really about control.
> Ignorance of Max is no exuse.
I like that one.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:44:04 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 22:45:32 GMT, Shice Beoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I find it hard to believe there's ANYthing less interesting than
> NASCAR.
How about televised golf?
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:44:06 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 19:47:13 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How can anyone noe understand directories? I could understand them
> when I was 7. God help them if they ever need to learn about
> double-linked lists or bitwise operations.
One might hope that people who can't grasp directories won't decide to
become programmers.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:45:03 -0400
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 18:51:14 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> I have experimented with regedit on the command line, but it's a
> >> complete arse.
> >
> >Of course it is--it's a CLI tool.
> >
> >But it's not dramatically better or worse than other CLIs.
> >
> >BTW, if you've already experimented with it, why did you claim it
> >couldn't be done?
>
> Just because I experimented with it doesn't mean it works.
So use PERL with the Registry module, works great
--
Nik Simpson
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:55:06 GMT
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[snip]
> > Just re-implementing Java exactly like
> > Sun's Java is a ticket to nowhere. It can
> > never have any advantage over Sun's
> > Java, since at best it is identical- and
> > more likely it has some flaws.
>
> And watch the tide turn when MS gets out of beta with C#.
> The shoe will somehow fit on the other foot all of a sudden.
C# is IMHO something of a rehash of J++,
actually- they are still pushing the same idea
of "Java, only better at Windows", only they
can't *call* it Java because Sun's lawyers will
beat up Microsoft's lawyers.
IMHO, C# will live or die on being better than
Java, and I won't place bets on which it will be.
It could turn out that .NET will be no more than
the Visual Basic of the next century.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but
IMHO MS means it to be a Java-killer, too, and
that means they must succeed on the *back* end,
too.
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:57:02 GMT
"." wrote:
>
> pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "." wrote:
> >>
> >> pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > "." wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> >>> Didn't you call someone a limey in a recent post? I suppose that's not
> >> >> >>> as bad as being a homophobe, although I'm not sure why.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I might have. I hate the english.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -----.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Racism is comtemptible.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hating the english isnt racism, its nationalism.
> >>
> >> > Come over here and say that and I will show you what I do to
> >> > "nationalists" (hint: I am a big bloke).
> >>
> >> You dont grow em bigger there than we grow em HERE.
> >>
> >> I'm big too. And I dont mind dusting a limey by giving
> >> him a big kiss on the lips right before I kick him in
> >> the nutsack. That always works by the way, no matter how
> >> ready you are for a big kiss, you arent EVER read for one
> >> from ME.
>
> > LOL - Bah humbug! I'll just blow some air up your kilt to distract you
> > (or nick your tinny).
>
> Hahhahhahaa...you dont have to be a Scot to be a nationalist. :P
>
> -----.
>
> --
> "George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
>
> ---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
Children... let's all act like big boys now, 'kay?
Linux sucks BTW. Thanks.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 00:58:28 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> pip wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >
> > > pip wrote:
> > > >
> > > > flatfish+++ wrote:
> > > > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > > This thread really does have no place here.
> > >
> > > deviancy effects EVERYONE.
> >
> > Yes I know - am I am being effected by you. Case in point.
> > Can you just stick to technology at least ?
>
> sure.
>
> shove that windows shit up Bill Gates's ass.
Right after it's installed onto Aaron's computer, of course.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
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