Linux-Advocacy Digest #67, Volume #35 Fri, 8 Jun 01 22:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (Rotten168)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Dan)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Dan)
Re: Time to bitc__ again (daniel)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Dan)
Re: Will MS get away with this one? (Dave Martel)
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (Dave Martel)
Re: UI Importance (Bob Hauck)
Re: UI Importance (Bob Hauck)
Re: UI Importance (Bob Hauck)
Re: what the heck is going on with the NYSE? (Bob Hauck)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Mayor Of R'lyeh)
Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! ("ne...")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:22:57 GMT
"." wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in alt.destroy.microsoft on Wed, 6 Jun 2001
> > 20:33:04 +0200;
> >>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen Edwards) writes:
> >>>
> >>> No, I'm a proud Yank. And the very notion that
> >>> a person should not be proud of his or her nation
> >>> is absurd. Everyone should be proud of their
> >>> heritage, and their home.
> >>
> >>Nationalism and religeous hate have caused more problems on this
> >>planet than anything else.
>
> > Why confabulate the two? Is it because your point that patriotism is
> > bad is so utterly weak that unless you throw religion into the same mold
> > you don't have a point, maybe?
>
> >>I'm Scottish and proud of it but I
> >>don't hate the English for what they have done in the past.
>
> > Then why are you whining like a child because someone else is proud of
> > where they are from?
>
> >>I'm
> >>all for getting away from nationalism.
>
> > You'd prefer everyone in the world thought the same way? That's called
> > bigotry, to think your way is the only right way. When taken to
> > national levels, it generally becomes fascist. Now do you understand
> > why Stephen called you a communist?
>
> >>As a yank I would keep
> >>quiet as your country doesn't have a very good record as far
> >>as most of the rest of the world is concerned (other than the
> >>despots you have aided in supressing their citizens).
>
> > We happen to have one of the best records ever made, dickweed. Sure,
> > the French and the English (note the order, limey) were instrumental,
> > but then so were the ancient Greeks. The USA pretty much provided the
> > template for the modern sensibility of fundamental human rights, though,
> > and Americans are and rightly should be very proud of the fact.
>
> While at the same time, with the other hand, murdering people at Kent State,
> Grant Park, The Bowery and Washington Square, etc. etc. etc.
Yes, but other countries have done the same thing.
> And that was just in the last half of the last century.
>
> Not to mention vietnam, nicaruagua, north korea, etc, etc, etc.
>
> Not to mention McCarthy.
Not really a violator of human rights really, more of a tyrant who was
eventually censured by the Senate.
> Or LBJ.
More of a controversial figure like McCarthy than a human rights abuser.
When I think of human rights abuser I think of someone like Idi Amin.
> Actually, the united states has one of the WORST records of human rights
> violations of any "civilized" country in the world. We just like everyone
> to think its best so that we can get out of paying our yearly dues for membership
> in both NATO and the United Nations.
Now this is one of those times that I step in and look like I'm being
patriotic (I'm not). Saying that the US has "one of the WORST records of
human rights abuses ..." is pretty silly without adding any kind of time
frame or statistics to back it up is pretty silly, and not adding what
you mean by "civilized" makes your assertion (predictably) useless.
Would you include second world along with first world? Because human
rights in the US is magnitudes better than it was in the former Soviet
Union. You're speaking in hyperbole.
BTW what's this about the US not paying NATO dues?
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: 8 Jun 2001 20:24:03 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jim Polaski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html
>
> Now if I'm the owner of a website and someone using M$ software comes
> along and alters my site, I should think my lawyer is going to be
> contacting someone about what unauthorized actions they have done. I
> want to think I' see a legal issue here.
Your site is not changed by this. Only the display of the page on the
computer running XP has certain words underlined to create new links.
Your page has not changed AT ALL.
Dan
------------------------------
From: Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: 8 Jun 2001 20:24:11 -0500
In article <eO9U6.9780$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Jim Polaski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html
> >
> > Now if I'm the owner of a website and someone using M$ software comes
> > along and alters my site, I should think my lawyer is going to be
> > contacting someone about what unauthorized actions they have done. I
> > want to think I' see a legal issue here.
>
> If you consider that HTLM is a very weak page layout format to begin with,
> you will realize that no two web browsers ever display a page exactly the
> same, thus *EVERY* web browser alters it to some extent. It's possible for
> your page to be included in other pages via frames and many other things.
>
> This is the nature of the net. It's also not all that different from
> Netscapes "What's related" function. The only difference is that the smart
> tags appear inline (it doesn't change your actual page, just provides a way
> to hover over words and get more information).
EXACTLY. Nice to see that someone else actually understands this.
Dan
------------------------------
From: daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Time to bitc__ again
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:24:30 GMT
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:08:59 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie
Ebert) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, daniel wrote:
>>You guys, I'm surprised. That people are taking shots at me regarding
>>my knowledge of and experience with Linux and also that this thread
>>turned into another lame Windows vs. Linux thing. Honestly, I think
>>the point I was trying to make had nothing to to with any particular
>>company but was basically an idea that I think is an important one for
>>any software, particularly one that is relied on by a wide base of
>>users some of whom may have extensive experience and many of whom do
>>not. I don't think the debate should be about having experience or
>>not, but in fact that it turned in this direction in this thread might
>>be somewhat indicative of a certain arrogance that once finds with
>>some devlopers in the Linux community. Listen, just because you may
>>have wanted to devote hours of your time to figure out why some
>>subsystem component wasn't functioning doesn't make you any better or
>>more knowledgeable - in fact, in many instances I consider spending
>>hours delving into this sort of thing to be a waste of time and also a
>>bad alloction of my priorities. I'm sure my employer wouldn't be
>>happy either that I spent several hours of my precious time dealing
>>with something as inane as getting Gnome to run with the proper window
>>manager under Debian (or setting up a system which has no window
>>manager at all - something that admittedly might not be needed but is
>>certainly nice to have).
>>
>>I have the experience of configuring Linux desktops for over 200
>>people for a large company. I also come from an accounting background
>>and still consider, in the desktop realm, the spreadsheet and basic
>>word-processor to be the most killer apps ever developed which will
>>likely never be surpassed by any others. I operate from a point of
>>view of functionality. Many systems administrators do not think of
>>efficiency for the enduser and their comments in this area often show
>>a lack of understanding in this respect. I can guarantee you that the
>>greatest leap forward that computers have provided for society is
>>probably the spreadsheet. Many people cannot imagine how vastly the
>>spreadsheet revolutionized the business practices of companies around
>>the world and forever changed the face of accounting (I suppose the
>>database deserves a lot of credit here as well...).
>>
>>When things are developed to a stable point and then become unstable
>>again this is a serious concern. When basic functionality of
>>interfaces seems to have not been subjected to what would be
>>considered in the QA world a mild degree of analysis then there is
>>cause for concern. I will bear the responsibility for getting things
>>like kernels to work because someone that does this should know what
>>they are doing (yes I can just get the source from kernel.org and not
>>rely on a "mandrake" kernel (which is probably a silly idea anyway but
>>would be neat if it actually worked, but why put my faith in someone
>>else to patch and build a kernel for me?)
>>
>>I have ideas as to why there were some problems with Mandrake: I have
>>noticed that installing with security setting "high" seems to cause
>>strange things to happen and my systems seem to generally run better
>>without this setting. Again, I don't want to spend hours
>>investigating why this is but would rather just install with security
>>setting "low" and spend my time setting up tcpwrappers, inetd, pam,
>>and the like with my own settings.
>>
>>On Fri, 25 May 2001 01:20:40 GMT, daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>Its time to do this again. Im not receiving enough spam, havent
>>>alienated enough people who know me, and, well, need to get this off
>>>my chest.
>>>
>>>Im really disappointed with the current sorry state of three of the
>>>major distributions of Linux.
>>>
>>>Redhat 7.1 and Mandrake 8.0 are laughable in terms of how buggy they
>>>are. Under both of them Gnome and KDE work like crap. Mandrake 8 had
>>>a serious install problem with mice which was know several
>>>pre-releases before the final release but wasnt fixed (their
>>>developers never saw the gazillion threads about this?)
>>>The latest Gnome and KDE both are funky. Gnome has a serious problem
>>>with window focus. KDE likes to freeze and is basically unusable.
>>>
>
>
>Um humm.
>
>
>>>I also havent been able to sucessfully compile a kernel on either of
>>>these. Everytime I read the threads I see that there are broken libcs
>>>because they are rushing to get 2.4 releases out the door and using
>>>unstable libraries.
>>>
>
>Um humm.
>
>
>
>
>>>Lets see Ive installed Debian 3 or 4 times in the past week and on
>>>every single installation it was like extracting teeth to get X to
>>>run. Once I did get X to run and Gnome was running on top of blackbox
>>>and twm. Okay. I finally managed to get sawmill or sawfish to run
>>>but then Gnome didnt launch.
>
>
>Humm.
>
>
>
>
>>>I went and tried to install task-ximian-<whateveritwas> instead of
>>>task-gnome-desktop and things only got even more mucked up. Plus the
>>>instructions on Ximians site for installing to gnome included a
>>>package which didnt exist.
>>>
>
>
>Ah hug.
>
>>>Basically this is so upsetting because late last year people were
>>>talking about Linux on the desktop and at that point things were
>>>beginning to work great. Mandrake 7.1 in my opinion was a work of
>>>near-perfection and worked almost flawlessly. Why do these distros
>>>insist on pushing forward and putting out cutting-edge recent, yet
>>>highly buggy releases? Why not just keep improving and existing one
>>>if it works? Wouldnt they make more money off working products than
>>>cutting-edge broken ones?
>>>
>>>Okay, I just checked and Mandrake seems to still be release updates
>>>for the 7.1 tree. This is excellent, since I intend to go back to it.
>>>
>>>I am surprised that none of these distros seem to be doing enough even
>>>basic level QA to realize that things are broken. Whats up with this?
>>>How can anyone advocate Linux on the desktop to a potentially critical
>>>public if these sorts of patterns continue?
>>
>
>Well.
>
>I've been running Debian for.... whooooo....
>
>5 years now? getting close to 6.
>
>I'm using 2.2 with Gnome 1.4 at the moment. Have the 2.4.4 kernel
>installed and running.
>
>I suppose you had Suse bomb on you also.
>
>Well, I had my 13 year old daughter, then 11, install Debian for
>me so it can't be too difficult sir.
>
>I mean you have to know what drivers to load for what cards but,
>as for the rest, frankly sir, a one fingered monkey can install
>Debian.
I've noticed how in every post you have made you completely fail to
use logic or even attempt to dispute on any logical ground any
statement I make. I suppose a one fingered monkey installing Debian
certainly would be something of interest to you.
------------------------------
From: Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: 8 Jun 2001 20:26:05 -0500
In article <ujbU6.10069$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > "Jim Polaski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html
> > > >
> > > > Now if I'm the owner of a website and someone using M$ software comes
> > > > along and alters my site, I should think my lawyer is going to be
> > > > contacting someone about what unauthorized actions they have done. I
> > > > want to think I' see a legal issue here.
> > >
> > > If you consider that HTLM is a very weak page layout format to begin
> with,
> > > you will realize that no two web browsers ever display a page exactly
> the
> > > same, thus *EVERY* web browser alters it to some extent. It's possible
> for
> > > your page to be included in other pages via frames and many other
> things.
> > >
> > > This is the nature of the net. It's also not all that different from
> > > Netscapes "What's related" function. The only difference is that the
> smart
> > > tags appear inline (it doesn't change your actual page, just provides a
> way
> > > to hover over words and get more information).
> >
> > It provides a way for links to be followed from a page that were not
> > intended to be there. If I write a page, I dont want m$ changing it.
>
> And how is that any different from the links available based on a page from
> the Netscape "What's related" feature?
Nothing. This is just typical knee-jerk reaction here. It's a
Microsoft innovation, so it's automatically suspect and evil.
Dan
------------------------------
From: Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Will MS get away with this one?
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 19:35:39 -0600
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 10:07:48 +1000, Ian Pulsford
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>How long will it be before
>IE begins editing out certain words with suitable M$ replacements from
>webpages?
Or inserting Microsoft's own ads onto every page Windows users view.
------------------------------
From: Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 19:35:55 -0600
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 22:45:32 GMT, Shice Beoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:24:35 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>>on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:43 GMT
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>Said Chris Ahlstrom in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 07 Jun 2001
>>>>flatfish+++ wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>> ie: This machine comes with 40 gigabytes of memory right?
>>>>
>>>>On the other hand, in the auto section of Walmart you'll hear more
>>>>intelligent questions. Why is that?
>>>
>>>Well put. Why *is* that?
>>
>>It might be that NASCAR is more interesting than the yearly competition
>>amongst highly intelligent, computer-knowledgeable students (I forget
>>the name, but it's an East vs. West competition setup). :-)
>
><snip>
>
>I find it hard to believe there's ANYthing less interesting than
>NASCAR.
Bowling for dollars.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:44:08 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 02:58:23 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:11:23 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Josiah Fizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >But the syntax for these other shells is diferent then the curent
> >Windows shell. If someone calls tech support and is told to type
> >
> >D:
> >cd fubar
> >copy widget.exe c:\fubar\widget.exe
> >
> >and the user is using TCSH, it wont work.
>
> The D: wouldn't work, but that's because of windows' fucked up file
> system, but the "cd" and "copy" commands would still be in the path.
The backslashes wouldn't work either. Under Cygwin, that command would
look like:
[bogon]$ cd //d/fubar
[fubar]$ cp widget.exe //c/fubar/widget.exe
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:44:03 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 02:58:27 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This may be off topic, but one things the Windows command line has
> over the Linux one is that in Windows you can do something like "ren
> *.aaa *.bbb", which you can't do in Linux, unless you wrote a script
> or something.
Yeah, that's more complicated on Unix-style systems because the shell
expands wildcards, not the command. The mv command never gets to see
the second '*', so the command can't possibly do what you want it to
do. The tradeoff is that having the shell expand wildcards means that
such expansion is consistent. Anyhow, one way to do this in bash is:
for i in *.zip; do mv $i $(echo $i|sed 's/\(.*\)\.zip/\1.blah/');done
This renames all '.zip' files to '.blah'. The "regex" that the OP is
talking about is the sed business. The s command performs text
substitution. The syntax is 's/regex/replacement/'. On my machine,
"man 7 regex" will tell you all about regular expressions. They are
very useful, but a bit hard to follow at first.
There will now follow a big flame thread about how I'm an idiot and the
above command is completely wrong and will destroy the world.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:44:12 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 02:58:22 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Couldn't they just incorporate the currently available documentation
> for the shell into the MS docs?
Well, they could, but it would take years for the marketing department
to remove all the content and replace it with happy talk.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: what the heck is going on with the NYSE?
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 01:44:17 GMT
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:36:43 -0400, Anonymous
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> what the heck is going on with the NYSE?
> How can a "computer problem" halt trading?
Whatever it is, their system is so reliable that when it breaks it is a
major news story. I'd say that is pretty good.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: Mayor Of R'lyeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 20:59:17 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:31:02 GMT, Jim Polaski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> chose
to bless us with this bit of wisdom:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>> http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html
>
>Now if I'm the owner of a website and someone using M$ software comes
>along and alters my site,
And what MS software does that? Its certainly not this Smart Tag
feature.
> I should think my lawyer is going to be contacting someone about what
> unauthorized actions they have done.
And what 'unauthorized' actions would those be?
> I want to think I' see a legal issue here.
I'm sure you do. You and your ilk think that every employee at
Microsoft has been carved from a hunk o' pure evil. Its quite funny to
watch your histionics. Please keep it up! 8)
------------------------------
From: "ne..." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 02:05:20 GMT
On Jun 8, 2001 at 20:21, . eloquently wrote:
>flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 8 Jun 2001 18:54:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>
>>>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> On 8 Jun 2001 16:21:34 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>>>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>I think it's more to do with the quality of lager in pubs around here - I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lager? I thought you were talking about BEER, not that watery piss!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What do you prefer?
>>>>>
>>>>>> BITTER.
>>>>>
>>>>>What *kind* of bitter, you simpleton.
>>>
>>>> Any.
>>>
>>>heineken?
>
>> Too sweet and gives a nasty headache if I drink too much, especially
>> if it's a hot summer day.
>
>> Becks is ok.
>
>> I like Samuel Adams, or Michelob Lite.
>
>Ah, the absolute worst of the absolute worst. I'm not surprised.
Carlsberg Special Brew.
--
Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org)
Remember: Silly is a state of Mind, Stupid is a way of Life.
-- Dave Butler
10:04pm up 22:48, 6 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
------------------------------
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