Linux-Advocacy Digest #84, Volume #35 Sat, 9 Jun 01 16:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (T. Max Devlin)
Re: I propose a GPL change... (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. ("Pinocchio Poppins")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Todd")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Bob Hauck)
Re: The nature of competition (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (drsquare)
Re: Desktop Linux (drsquare)
Re: Desktop Linux (drsquare)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (drsquare)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (drsquare)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (drsquare)
Re: Laugh, it's hilarious. (drsquare)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (drsquare)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (drsquare)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (drsquare)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (drsquare)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (drsquare)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (drsquare)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (drsquare)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 19:35:17 GMT
Said drsquare in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 19:47:13
>On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:14:47 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>>"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
>>> Typical LoseDOS lusers.
>>>
>>During my past life as tech support, I responded to calls like "My
>>computer won't work!!!" Upon arrival, I turn on the monitor. Or sometimes
>>the box itself needs to be turned on. The "typical" user appears unable
>>to learn anything. I have discovered a pretty good test for the "special
>>needs" user.
>>
>>Many years ago, I taught computer classes all about dos. Windows was not
>>on the horizon then. The biggest hurdle hurdle was the directories. Md,
>>cd and rd were the hardest concepts. I tried analogies like file folders
>>in a filing cabinet. I even brought paper files, file folders and a
>>cabinet to demonstrate what the computer was doing. Still, despite my
>>most valiant attempts, half the class could not understand. The other
>>half were angry because the class was being held up.
>
>How can anyone noe understand directories? I could understand them
>when I was 7. God help them if they ever need to learn about
>double-linked lists or bitwise operations.
That's the beauty of it; they don't, and the vast majority of them never
will. In fact, such knowledge is a waste of time. As for directories;
anyone can understand them. Not everyone can explain them, that's all.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I propose a GPL change...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 19:35:18 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 7 Jun 2001
>"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:27:34 -0600, Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> > Since Microsoft so despises the GPL, I propose that the GPL be changed
>> > to prevent the use of GPL'd software on any Microsoft OS! ;o)
>> >
>> A great idea and I second it, but whats the point ?
>>
>> Microsoft have just demonstrated (MS v/s AT&T) that they will
>> steal your patented code, and then refuse to pay one cent
>> even when you allow them to license it (after the act).
>
>You cannot patent code, you can only patent algorithms.
You cannot patent algorithms. You can only patent *processes*.
Software can be part of such a process, and thus use of the software
(but not "the software) is patented.
>There is much GPL'd and free software that violates patents as well, for
>instance vorbis ogg is claimed to still violate the mp3 patents.
Until it is proven in court, it is not worth quibbling about. It is
open source code; whether it infringes on a patent is a matter of facts,
not urban legends.
>Patents cover ideas, which can be implemented in hundreds of different ways.
Patents cover a single way of implementing a process. Ideas have no
protection whatsoever.
>It's quite easy to unintentionally violate a patent. Of course AT&T claims
>that MS willfully violated the patent, however, it's pretty much common
>practice to ignore patent issues unless actually sued, since most of the
>time the claims are baseless.
It is *possible*. It is not 'quite easy' to unintentionally violate a
patent, or else patents would not be possible to uphold. Your
explanation of the common approach seems to contradict your own point;
if most of the time the claims are baseless, then obviously it is not
easy to unintentionally violate a patent, though it may be easy to get
sued for a baseless claim.
>> How can Microsoft expect Windows pirates to feel the least
>> bit guilty, when MS are themselves pirates on a mammoth
>> scale?
>
>Patent infringement is not copyright infringement.
IP infringement is IP infringement. How can MS expect Windows pirates
to feel the least bit guilty, when MS are themselves pirates on a
mammoth scale?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "Pinocchio Poppins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 19:36:15 GMT
"flatfish+++" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >"No!! Any file ending in .EXE is a necessary file to your computer.
Quake3.exe is not necessary for playing Tetanus On Drugs.
> And the Linvocates expect these people to edit config files and run
> Linux?
No, they write curses tools and graphical tools to do the config
editing for them.
> Unfortunately the above is the sorry level of computer knowledge out
> there in the world. Just take a wander past the computers in Walmart
> and listen to the questions people are asking the sales staff.
>
> ie: This machine comes with 40 gigabytes of memory right?
In a way, yes. My computer has a 40 GB hard disk, and if I wanted,
I could turn on the swap file and get 40 GB of virtual memory with a
128 MB cache.
------------------------------
From: "Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 03:39:00 +0800
Reply-To: "Todd" <todd<remove>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Stephen Edwards wrote:
>
> >No, I'm a proud Yank. And the very notion that
> >a person should not be proud of his or her nation
> >is absurd. Everyone should be proud of their
> >heritage, and their home.
>
> Why? It's just where you born. It's not like you achieved anything. Your
> parents fucked, and out you popped. It could have been anywhere. So just
> keep that image in mind, next time you feel patriotic, just visualise your
> father hunched over your mother. Which is all it comes down to, really.
Well, I'm proud to be American.
Strongest nation on earth. Others will surely balk at me, but who cares.
We have the strongest economy, the strongest military, the best movies
(hehe), we invented the light bulb, transistor, microprocessor, we started
the Internet, and a whole bunch more.
You can say what you want, but America rockz. That isn't to say that other
nations don't rock also, but for different reasons.
There is good in every nation... hey... my best friend is Australian, and my
favorite beer is from Singapore.
So just relax on this patriotic shit because there is good stuff everywhere
and bad stuff everywhere.
W2k rockz and linux suxors. Need I say more? :)
-Todd
>
> --
> Nick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 19:43:45 GMT
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:34 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Said Bob Hauck in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:33:51
> >On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 04:05:34 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Said Bob Hauck in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:45:03
> >> >On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:37:22 GMT, T. Max Devlin
> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In theory, an ISP could run thousands of hosts on one mainframe. Such
> >> >> an ISP would go out of business, though. It is not an efficient way to
> >> >> spend money, that's all.
> >> >
> >> >Have you actually calculated the costs?
> >>
> >> No, but I presume that ISPs have.
> >
> >So, you haven't calculated the costs, and you don't know what
> >conclusion ISP's who have done so have come to.
>
> Sure I do. Their conclusions, if they have considered the matter, were
> obviously that mainframes were not cost-effective platforms. This is
> conclusively proven by the dearth of ISPs implementing mainframes.
Max, your logic is mistaken. That few ISP's have implmented mainframes
does not prove that they aren't cost effective. It proves that they
haven't been seen as a viable solution, but says nothing about the
reasons. I may be wrong, but I thought that IBM ported Linux to their
mainframes in part to overcome some of those objections so they could
sell some mainframes into the ISP market.
There are, in fact, lots of non-economic reasons that have prevented
mainframes from being used to support virtual hosts, the largest being
software. As in, there wasn't much, and what there was was alien to
the customer base.
Now, because of IBM's work, you can set up a virtual host with Linux
and Apache, which customers are familiar with. It still won't be cost
effective until you get to over a thousand hosts (by my rough
estimate), but some providers are at that level. I'm sure they are
watching what happens at Telia, even if you are dismissing it out of
hand.
> I also "presume" you have the intelligence to discuss things reasonably.
Well, gee, that's sure nice of you Max. So far you haven't managed to
go two posts with me without telling me how dumb I am. Maybe there's
hope for me though, if you presume enough.
> >At least one ISP has done exactly what you say is so illogical.
>
> So you agree it is illogical, and that one ISP doing it doesn't
> magically make it logical, then?
I agree that you said it was illogical. I agree that there are lots of
factors that go into determining whether it is the right thing to do. I
don't agree that Telia is doing because they like to waste money.
> >I guess you'd better clue Telia in then:
> > <http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-4028271.html>
>
> What are you trying to say? I don't do the 'this link refutes you'
> game. If you have information, give it to me. If not, admit it.
I'm just pointing to an example of somebody who did think it was the
right solution. You claim that they are government funded and therefore
don't care about profit. Can you back that up? They do seem to have an
investor relations page on their web site, BTW. I would presume
(there's that word again) that if they have investors that they care
about profits.
> >Now, _that_ is funny. You haven't calculated any costs, checked on
> >what others have done, or posted any actual facts at all,
> This is a discussion, not a research project. You have done none of
> these things either.
Actually, I did. I did not make a lifetime project out of it, but I did
bother to look up how much Telia spent on the mainframe and how many
virtual hosts it was going to run. The numbers look reasonable on the
face of it.
> You seem to have missed the fact that these simplistic calculations have
> already been provided. They are convincing, maybe, if you have a
> simplistic idea of the requirements. It isn't as simple as that,
Ok, what am I missing? What ISP requirements does the mainframe
solution not fulfill? How does having a hundred minicomputers or a
thousand PC's fulfill these requirements better? If it is so obvious
you ought to be able to explain it.
> though, and you will find that any ISP that tries to use a mainframe
> platform for network services is going to start losing money,
Why? You keep claiming that, but you haven't given any reasons for it
other than vague hand-waving about mainframes not being suitable for
ISP use even on a very lage scale. Well, why aren't they? Please
elaborate.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Subject: Re: The nature of competition
Date: 9 Jun 2001 14:35:20 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>That's what they say about KDE too... personally, KDE *is* stable...
>although it could have more features... and no, I'm not talking about
>animated cartoons or paperclips.
>
>For example, I'd like to be able to handle all screen related settings such
>as resolution, color bit depth, etc. from one place, such as right
>click->properties->screen as in W2k.
How would you suppose that KDE, running on a headless server in the
campus server room, change the display depth and resolution of one of
the 23 X-terminals in the computer-lab?
HTH. HAND.
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP key 0xD61A655D
"The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
failed to start because of the following error:
The operation completed successfully." -- Windows NT Server v3.51
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:01:39 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:15:26 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>drsquare wrote:
>> >> While at the same time, with the other hand, murdering people at Kent State,
>> >> Grant Park, The Bowery and Washington Square, etc. etc. etc.
>> >
>> >Yes, but other countries have done the same thing.
>>
>> What, civilised developed countries?
>
>Yes.
Care to give any examples?
>> >> Or LBJ.
>> >
>> >More of a controversial figure like McCarthy than a human rights abuser.
>> >When I think of human rights abuser I think of someone like Idi Amin.
>>
>> Or LBJ.
>
>Is there an echo in here? Give me reasons, not the same worthless phrase
>over and over again.
Note how you avoid taking on the point.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Desktop Linux
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:01:43 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:57:54 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>mlw wrote:
>>
>> There is a lot of crap being said about Linux being "ready" for the desktop.
>> This is interesting because everyone assumes everything is necessary for the
>> desktop. Everything from video capture, multistream video editing, multisource
>> sound editing, 3d realistic gaming, and on and on.
>
>I think of a desktop system as a system with wich you can do at least
>the following:
>
>* Access the Internet (all services, from http to irc)
I doubt most users know what IRC is.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Desktop Linux
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:01:45 +0100
On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:10:30 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>> I think the best attribute of Windows is its implementation of OLE. For
>> example, it's nice to be able to edit a diagram, and stick it neatly
>> into a Word document, and instantly see where your diagrams are. With
>
>You can do this on linux as well - Staroffice, Openoffice and Koffice can
>all embed files from one type of office application inside documents from
>another type (e.g. embedding editable spreadsheets inside wordprocessor
>files) so there is no real reason that linux cannot be used by those who
>need this feature ( the only current problems are lack of printing in
>openoffice and no MS office export filter in Koffice but if you need to do
>these things then staroffice will do them well ).
Come on, admit it. Star office is a big pile of shite.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:01:48 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 11:46:43 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"You've got MALE.. sex organs!" wrote:
>>
>> Definitely - KEEP the sig. It reaffirms your fuckhead mentality.
^^^^^^^^
> you misspelled "rational, anti-leftist liberal"
Why are you against the left? And why are being so vague? What "left"
ideals do you not like? And why do you describe yourself as liberal
when you're clearly not.
>> Demonstrating what a fucking idiot you are, and the sort of
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> rational person
>
>> stupidity that YOU think is "neat"..
> ^^^^^^^^^
> wisdom
I don't know how having an obnoxiously long sig, and contributing only
queer comments to the end of everyone else's posts counts as wisdom.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:01:51 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 12:30:04 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"Laura M. Hagan" wrote:
>> > > d) Lesbians, who have a lower chance of getting AIDS than
>> > > do either male or female heterosexuals.
>> > > Idiot.
>> >
>> > What's your pre-occupation with lesbos?
>>
>> Why do you want to pretend they don't exist?
>
>
>They aren't germane to the subject at hand.
Of course they are.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:01:58 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 12:34:22 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>Ray Fischer wrote:
>> >Only lesbos.
>> >
>> >Male homosexuals are notorious for being incredibly promiscous....
>>
>> Kulkis got dumped by his boyfriend?
>
>
>I only go out with females, you ass-reamed moron.
I doubt any female would want to go out with you.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.aol-sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Laugh, it's hilarious.
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:01 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 12:11:05 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>Bob Hauck wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 22:45:32 GMT, Shice Beoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I find it hard to believe there's ANYthing less interesting than
>> > NASCAR.
>>
>> How about televised golf?
>quite true.
What about chess? On the radio?
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:05 +0100
On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:15:29 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >I'm chocking here.
>> >*Mere* 1 GB? There is not such thing as *mere* GB, for crying out loud.
>> >
>> >Do you remember about 5 years ago?
>> >When 2GB HD were the hottest item? And all of Windows was 35MB on disk,
>> >100MB installed?
>>
>> Yeah, but JP \ PL thinks you can buy a 1GB hard disk for $2.60
>
>You can, what is your point?
>I know people that *gives* 1GB away.
Who? Where can I go to get a 1GB drive? And would that enable me to
install Windows XP and all the programs that come with it?
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:07 +0100
On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:39:56 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >Do you remember about 5 years ago?
>> >When 2GB HD were the hottest item? And all of Windows was 35MB on disk,
>> >100MB installed?
>>
>> Yeah, but JP \ PL thinks you can buy a 1GB hard disk for $2.60
>
>Actually I didn't say that. Your just not bright enough to read very well.
>What I said was (for the third time), the storage portion XP requires on an
>80gb drive which currently sells for $208 at pricewatch.com is about $2.60.
>Get it yet Einstein? The cost to store Windows XP is $2.60.
Erm, no it isn't. You can't just get the 80GB drive for $208 and cut
off a 1GB portion. You either buy the whole thing or get a smaller
drive. You can't just pay the $2.60
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:08 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 16:23:13 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
("Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>"Charles Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>[snip- XP SmartTags]
>> Who put the wavy line in the page?
>> If you put wavy lines in my page you violate my copyright and may be
>> guilty of vandalism.
>
>Dubious. If I buy a book and mark it up with
>a yellow highlighter, is that vandalism? Have
>I violated the copyright of the book's author?
If the bookshop did that then yes.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:10 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:24 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>Said David Brown in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:24:06
>>No, that is not the problem. The problem is this ridiculous idea that if
>>you don't salute your country's flag first thing every morning, then you are
>>automatically a communist and should move to China.
>
>AFAIK, you are the only one to mention saluting anything.
You knew what he meant.
>>True freedom (the
>>founding principle of America) is about choosing the ideals and philosophies
>>you want, and being free to express these ideals and live them out.
>
>So true freedom requires political adherence to a particular supposedly
>idealistic method of government? Hell; sounds like patriotism to me!
>
>"True" freedom has nothing to do with it. America was founded on the
>principle of *real* freedom, and if you don't like it, then you are (not
>automatically, but are nonetheless) a communist and should move to
>China, metaphorically.
It might have been founded on that principle, but living in American
today is far from "real freedom". If you want "real freedom", go and
live in Holland.
>> An American may think the US political system is
>>oppresive of human rights, yet still believe it to be the best in the world.
>
>People can believe all sorts of stupid things. Are you saying that it
>is better to be oppressive of human rights than to have pride in your
>country? I'm sure that can't be right, but, honestly, I can't tell what
>you're trying to say.
It's hard to tell what you're trying to say in most of this thread.
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:15 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:25 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:07:48
>>>>You really are paranoid and fucked up.
>>>
>>>Why? Because he actually feels that democracy and freedom are better
>>>than oppression of the individual and communism?
>>
>>No, because he feels that a negative view on patriotism equates to a
>>positive view on communism.
>
>That sounds more like sound reason, rather than paranoia.
No, it's unhealthy paranoia.
>>And secondly because he has an irrational
>>paranoia of communism.
>
>Communists do not believe in individual civil rights.
I know many communists who believe in individual civil rights.
>For someone who
>does believe in individual civil rights to believe communists are
>abhorrent and mistaken is not irrational. Quite the opposite; it is
>perfectly logical and appropriate.
Erm, are you feeling alright?
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:18 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:27 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>Said . in alt.destroy.microsoft on 8 Jun 2001 16:24:44 GMT;
>>> template for the modern sensibility of fundamental human rights, though,
>>> and Americans are and rightly should be very proud of the fact.
>>
>>While at the same time, with the other hand, murdering people at Kent State,
>>Grant Park, The Bowery and Washington Square, etc. etc. etc.
>
>As always, you can tell when someone's position is shakey when they
>start using metaphoric, rather than analytic, speech. People were
>killed at Kent State and these other places, certainly. They were not,
>however, murdered.
Playing words games won't help you now.
>>And that was just in the last half of the last century.
>>Not to mention vietnam, nicaruagua, north korea, etc, etc, etc.
>>Not to mention McCarthy.
>>Or LBJ.
>
>
>What about them? Are you under the impression I am denying they exist?
You'd rather they didn't.
>>Actually, the united states has one of the WORST records of human rights
>>violations of any "civilized" country in the world.
>
>Compared to whom?
Canada, Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Holland, Denmark, Belgium,
Italy, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Mexico, Poland...
------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:21 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:28 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>--
>T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
You obviously don't care about convincing anyone.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
