Linux-Advocacy Digest #154, Volume #35 Tue, 12 Jun 01 09:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Burkhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=)
Re: Why homosexuals are a threat to heterosexuals ("~¿~")
Re: UI Importance ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: which OS is better to learn for an entry level job? ("Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)")
Re: which OS is better to learn for an entry level job? ("Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (mlw)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (pip)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (pip)
Re: Mail Order Brides? Check this place out! ("Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)")
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (mlw)
Re: Why homosexuals are a threat to heterosexuals ("Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)")
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (pip)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (pip)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (Nick Condon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Burkhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=F6lfel?=
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:36:52 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[snip]
> If everyone is a fascist, then there is no point in using the term as a
> label for an individual person, no. Does that mean it doesn't have any
> meaning? No. It is an abstraction, kid. A *characteristic*, not a
> *category*.
Now that's a hot spot: *characteristic* or *category* ?
I guess that depends on the pragmatic aspect of how you use it. Roots of
the word is Latin via Italian, "fasces". First use was AFAIK "i
fascisti" to name a certain group of italian politicians.
That's a category; the *characteristic* approach doesn't work, it recurs
to the behaviour of the group.
Evade the problem, use another term!
> Get it? If everyone is fascist, then this is what *gives
> meaning* to the term fascist.
> It is that tendency to believe ourselves
> correct and all others wrong.
fascism --> stupidity?
> It is related to bigotry.
fascism --> bigotry?
> It is really
> only an issue when dealing with nationalist politics, which is why it is
> related to the discussion at hand, on patriotism.
fascism --> xenophobia?
>
> Basically, you are trying to claim that all patriotism is fascism, or
> religion, or something else other than what it is, which is patriotism,
> so that you can claim it is bad.
IMO fascism is a highly specific model of government. It makes use of
patriotism, xenophobia etc. Two examples of fascist states are 2nd WW
Italy and Germany, although the germans labeled theirs
"national-socialist".
BTW, http://remember.org/hist.root.what.html gives some overview.
I am seriously opposed to your use of the word. Use other terms, you
don't have to argue 'bout the definition. You even avoid the discussion
about the singularity of fascism and related topics like the holocaust.
I found that the use of words less "contaminated" suited better in any
discussion about "fascism" in today's politics, which to me seems widely
spread.
--
=============================================
Burkhard Wölfel
v e r s u c h s a n s t a l t (at) g m x . de
pubkey for this adress @ pgp.net
=============================================
------------------------------
Reply-To: "~¿~" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "~¿~" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are a threat to heterosexuals
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:01:45 GMT
I didn't realize LinZealots were such homophobes.
I've no problem with that, just quit cross-posting it.
Nobody with any sense cares.
Hence the resident 'gurus' jumping on the bandwagon.
You guys are really amusing though.
I'm thinking one day I'm going to hear a big, cascading' popping ' sound.
I'm gonna smile as I'll know when I hear it that it's the sound of all of
your heads collectively being discharged from you arses!
Like a huge perl array that contains the cola phone book popping each
arsehole off the right hand side, triggering a sound file made from one
element of an egg-fart at 1 gigaflop speeds.
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:05:54 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g48f9$cpk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Doesn't one of the latest incarnations have no command line at all?
> >
> > ME or XP or something? How much more crippled can you get than that?
>
> ME, and it indeed sucks.
> XP has much better CLI
No, ME still ships with COMMAND.COM,
same as always.
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: which OS is better to learn for an entry level job?
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:04:01 +1200
+ if you wanted to have an output of the sourcecode:
load "program-name" [enter]
list [enter]
or to load the program and run it:
chain "program-name" [enter]
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the blue screen of death
nobody hears your scream's
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g4qh3$dfv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > First programming language learnt was BBC Basic, followed by
> >> > AmigaBASIC
> >> ^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> Good choice. One of the best and fastest BASICs ever made. Also one of
> >> the few (only one?) that could cope with memory allocation and
> >> pointers.
> >
> > Never had the chance to use BBC Basic. Actually, never heard of it.
> > Everything at the time was MS Basic this or MS that....
>
> Well, BBC basic was more common in the UK than anywhere else, which makes
> sense consiering the BBC is the major braodcaster in the UK, rather than
> anywhere else.
>
> It was a very fast basic, it was compiled in to a kind of byte code when
> you entered each line. It was also a very capable BASIC.
>
> -Ed
>
>
>
> --
> (You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.)
(u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
>
> /d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f
5 -1
> r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0
rmoveto}for/s 15
> d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: which OS is better to learn for an entry level job?
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:05:16 +1200
> Never had the chance to use BBC Basic. Actually, never heard of it.
> Everything at the time was MS Basic this or MS that....
One benefit of being part of the Commonwealth and former colony of Britain
:)
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the blue screen of death
nobody hears your scream's
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:22:16 +0100
Burkhard Wölfel wrote:
>
> Thaddius Maximus wrote:
>
> > Most all medical programs in Eurpoe are a complete disaster.
>
> The german system is OK for me after all.
>
In the USA I can get all new porcelain teeth (20 USD) and
a hair transplant (20 USD) through my medical insurance
policy. Can Europe beat that !!! ;-)
> > Without the USA, mother Russia would have gobbled up most all of
> > Europe long ago.
>
> Don't overestimate her for she is drunk and schizo.
Very true, and at the same time, very scary... What will
she do next???
> (That was a bit of a bad joke, actually. But...)
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:08:49 GMT
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:32:14 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >> >Lots of webs sites do use them, and quite
> >> >successfully. What's the problem with them?
> >>
> >> Successfully?
> >
> >Sure.
>
> Give me some URLs.
Hmm? You haven't noticed all the cites
with the little "get Acrobat Reader free"
badges on them?
[snip]
> >It is not for the same task. PDF was designed to
> >give you control; HTML is all about letting
> >the browser decide how to present your
> >info.
> >
> >It sounds very much like for what you want
> >to do, PDF is a better solution.
>
> In that case, why does nearly every site use PDF?
I thought you were just demanding links to
prove than anybody was using PDF! Yeesh.
PDF isn't as popular as HTML because
more people need what HTML offers
rather than what PDF offers.
It's like Huey Long said: They're
both good.. but they're different! :D
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:16:18 -0400
pip wrote:
> If you are going to code for speed - then CODE FOR SPEED. You'll use
> system calls and native library calls which will all need changing
> anyway. I know from painful experience. So why not throw in specific
> compiler optimisations while we are at it and stop pretending to write
> portable code?
Portable code is what I do best, sometimes however, it is easier to write whole
functions for various environment, based on knowlege about the various
environments. Of course you would write a baseline function in strict C, but
then optimize for the specific platform.
void *MapFile(char *szFileName)
#ifdef UNIX
{
.....
return mmap(...);
}
#elif defined(WINDOWS)
{
/* Map file in Windows, there is a call which escapes me at the moment */
}
#else
{
void *p=NULL;
int file = open(szFileName,...);
if(file!=-1)
{
ssize_t size;
off_t len = lseek(file, 0, SEEK_EKD);
assert(len != -1);
p = malloc(len);
assert(p);
size = read(file,p,len);
assert(size == len);
}
return p;
}
#endif
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:15:48 +0100
mlw wrote:
> It is the same argument, with one difference. C is more like a portable
> assembler.
Really ? Well then show me a large C program that does something useful
that is potable. Lets see - how about some simple TCP/IP application
with a UI. Show me an example of pure C that provides this. Oh, it's in
the libraries I here you say ? What, they are not portable. Thank
goodness for #ifdef aye ? What? C99 does not work on some compilers ? My
my, you poor little programmer you.
>
> >
> > Most of the clever "real software engineers" relaise that what you are
> > saying is rubbish.
>
> I don't think so. I know a lot of people who want to use Java instead of C, but
> to be honest, I have yet to meet one Java proponent that understands anything
> about how computers really work. IMHO that is what is wrong with "Computer
> Science" courses these days. They do not spend enough time on the actual
> computer. Like it or not, the computer is what you are programming.
Really? The people who wrote Java were C and C++ experts.
> > > I know that is an outrageous opinion, and it is extreme for the effect, but it
> > > has elements of truth. One can not write a device driver in perl. The JVM can
> > > not directly access I/O ports. These are examples of what software engineers
> > > should understand.
> >
> > Please explain - can you say JNI ? Or are you speaking from a point of
> > knowledge or preconception ?
>
> JNI just drops you down into C, so no, you can't do these things in Java.
Oh please! You can't do those things in plain C either unless you use
system specific features.
Besides, I don't really feel "more of a programmer" when writing in C.
In fact it is just an extra pain in the arse because it takes more time
to "maintain".
> > > Try writing a file compression utility in java. Now write that same utility in
> > > C or C++ using all the nice features that C and C++ have. The function
> > > mmap(...) can make the whole compression chore as easy as rifling through a
> > > buffer. There is no comparison, the C or C++ code can be so much fatser and
> > > require fewer resources, than the equivilent in Java or perl.
> >
> > Really? Try looking in the Java API - there is already one there so you
> > don't need to waste your time. If you choose to waste your time you will
> > find the performance near C for these type of non-gui operations. Also
> > if you need to you can call nmap() you can (if you really want to
> > sacrifice portability for performance). But then again, you can live in
> > denial if you want to, that's up to you.
>
> I don' know what kind of software you write for a living, but every last bit
> helps. If you have competition who has better performence than you, then you
> must make the adjustments to compete or you go out of business.
The consumer market can be fickle I know.
> Java and Perl are for wannabe programmers who do business forms and web pages.
Again this highlights your absolute ignorance of the Java language
today.
> Would you bet your company, writing its product in Java, and hope that someone
> does not come along and write a hard core native product in C or C++ and blow
> you out of the water?
Hmmmmm. Obviously you have not heard that there are actually native
compilers for Java. Oh well.
> I have invested the time to learn Java, inside and out. Its cute for web pages,
> but I can't see any real benefit to using it.
Java is not used much in "Applets" there days. You are behind the times.
>I wrote an interface to a
> graphics library for Solaris and Windows, Microsoft VM and Sun VM.
>It was painful.
"....always blame their tools".
> If it is silly little script, who cares, but applications, people complain
> about code bloat all the time. Java is but one cause of code bloat.
Do they ? Funny, imho the customers I work with don't say : "that
reliable system you wrote takes and extra 5 seconds to start up - so you
mind re-coding it to make it fast and error-prone ?" or "Blimely, I've
noticed that your application takes an extra mb RAM - do you mind
optimising this?"
But then again it depends on the type of customer you work with. The M$
types "faster is better" or the NASA types "make it safe, reliable and
then faster".
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:16:54 +0100
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:42:05 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >Why would one use Java? Why perl?
>
> Why use Perl? Becaues it is so useful and great. For instance, would
> you rather write a CGI program in perl or C? Perl, of course. You'd be
> there for weeks with C. Things that take one line of code in Perl
> would take a couple of pages in C.
Why bother being efficient when you can waste company time re-inventing
the wheel ?
Also you may miss out on some in-line assembler optimisations!
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mail Order Brides? Check this place out!
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:12:33 +1200
Come on Dave, the last thing I want to be arrest for forced torture and
humilitian of a human ;) Maybe Aaron should just stay single. Women reject
him, all men dislike him, hence, he will have to spend the rest of his life
as a unisexual, company provided by Mary Palmer and her five sisters.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the blue screen of death
nobody hears your scream's
"Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:50:40 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Has everything you need to know about "buying" the perfect Russian wife.
>
> >These men are the hardcore losers and if you read some of the messages
you'll begin to see why.
>
> Hey, let's all chip in and get Aaron one!
>
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:21:25 -0400
pip wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > GreyCloud wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There is one reason to choose C over C++.
> > > > > You can use C functions with *everything*, there isn't a language that
> > > > > doesn't have C binding.
> > > > > There are plenty that doesn't have C++ binding.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, but why not put those C-functions into a module and call them from
> > > > your C++? That way you can have both.
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > >
> > > As an aside... I was trying to use the throw statement in g++.
> > > It compiled correctly, but it didn't work... just got a core dump.
> > > I wasn't able to find any references to g++ throw at the website either.
> > > Any ideas?
> >
> > Probably because you didn't have an appropriate "catch" routine.
>
> Oh dear - the compiler did not catch this simple error ? Those "toy"
> languages can. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Core dump ? Oh dear.
That is exactly what should have happened. An exception was thrown and the
program did not know how to handle it. If the same sort of thing happened in
Java, the program would quit as well. Perl would too.
A core dump is great. One can use gdb to find exactly where the program died,
and why.
gdb -core=core myprogram
--
42 was the answer, 49 was too soon.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner \(BOFH\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are a threat to heterosexuals
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:17:56 +1200
LOL. Sorry about that. Hopefully you weren't eating sea food soup at the
time.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the blue screen of death
nobody hears your scream's
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:32:20 +1200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> > So Aaron, how does Dubya's semen taste?
> >>
> >> You tell us.
> >
> >Aaron to normal person translation:
> >
> >You tell us ---> "Rather salty, anyone else tried?"
>
> Fucking hell, I'm trying to have my dinner here!
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:28:21 +0100
mlw wrote:
>
> pip wrote:
>
> > If you are going to code for speed - then CODE FOR SPEED. You'll use
> > system calls and native library calls which will all need changing
> > anyway. I know from painful experience. So why not throw in specific
> > compiler optimisations while we are at it and stop pretending to write
> > portable code?
>
> Portable code is what I do best, sometimes however, it is easier to write whole
> functions for various environment, based on knowlege about the various
> environments. Of course you would write a baseline function in strict C, but
> then optimize for the specific platform.
>
> void *MapFile(char *szFileName)
> #ifdef UNIX
> {
> .....
> return mmap(...);
> }
> #elif defined(WINDOWS)
> {
> /* Map file in Windows, there is a call which escapes me at the moment */
> }
> #else
> {
> void *p=NULL;
> int file = open(szFileName,...);
> if(file!=-1)
> {
> ssize_t size;
> off_t len = lseek(file, 0, SEEK_EKD);
> assert(len != -1);
> p = malloc(len);
> assert(p);
> size = read(file,p,len);
> assert(size == len);
> }
> return p;
> }
> #endif
That is NOT portable code - that is three different code trees in the
same file. You have a very different understanding of "portable" than I
do it seems. But thanks at least for the code snippet. What I would like
is the SAME code - and let the compiler and native libraries sort out
optimisations for platform specific stuff. Anything else is wasting
time.
Now I know I have come down hard on your blatant contempt for Java and
Perl programmers, and I am not saying that you don't have valid points.
BUT you must realise that as a programmer I get personal satisfaction in
getting things to work as they should and THEN optimising. I do the same
thing in C and Java (although the approach is different). The thing that
strikes me is that I would like to simply write code for Linux and
Windows. Other platforms are a benefit, but I do NOT want to change the
code base if possible because I really don't want to waste my time. Of
course I know that C is more efficient. I just am saying that mostly it
is a waste of time for certain applications. Of course there is a very
good case for using C sometimes and indeed I do. But PLEASE DON'T SAY
THAT PEOPLE WHO USE JAVA ARE ANY LESS CLEVER BECAUSE THEY DO. For
example, I have worked on a major Java project that involved testing out
a complicated protocol specification. It was a joy to work with and we
could do everything we needed (including interfacing with a custom C
based driver for the technology). We then switched to C to make the
final production code for the low memory target device (FYI using a
real-time OS called pSOS a Unix like OS for embedded devices). So please
don't lecture me in how I am stupid because I and people like me use and
like Java.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: 12 Jun 2001 12:17:28 GMT
In article <9g42ap$luq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And the worst behaved applications drop their bits in /usr/bin, /usr/lib
> /usr/man etc. It's easier to reinstall them from scratch.
I can't think of any that do, at least not in the last 10 years. I'm not
saying there aren't, but I'd be interested to hear of them.
A bigger problem is the X11 programs that use Imake and end up installing
in /usr/X11R6. Luckily newer packages tend more to use autoconf instead.
And you can always just move /usr/X11R6 en-masse to a new directory and
run them from there.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: 12 Jun 2001 12:12:53 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Maynard Handley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And the Linux crowd don't seem to have anything useful to ad either beyond
> "Windows sux". I've not read anything that indicates the problem is better
> on Linux. I could believe that some parts of the problems are
> easier---presumably PER USER prefs files are limited in how far they can
> go. But a linux box used as a personal box---what about all the apps? What
> about drivers installed after the OS? What about OS-wide prefs that you
> set?
Well, I don't know *in detail* about how any specific Linux
distribution works, I don't do Linux. But if it's like a FreeBSD system
there's three basic directions you could go:
First, you could do an OS install into a new disk, mount the original
disk as a second drive, and run the applications installed there. You
could also do a backup of the original disk, and restore the /usr/local
filesystem as something like "/usr/old_local". Some apps may have
installed as /usr/<appname> or /var/opt/<appname>, those you just plop
down where they came from. You may need to modify some of the
application config files to get them working again. /usr/X11* is
treated like /usr/local, move that to /usr/old_X11.
For drivers, you may or may not be able to run them under the new OS.
If it's been several years, the driver interfaces may have changed...
they're a lot less consistent than the OS.
Second, you could just install the OS over the current system, then
copy /usr/local back in. The OS won't be putting anything there. You
will probably still need to have a /usr/old_X11 because the OS
distribution of X may conflict.
Finally, you could use an upgrade install, if your OS supports it. I
had a FreeBSD box I upgrade-installed all the way from 1.1.5 to
3.something. For that you just install the OS source tree and do a new
system build. If it's been several years you may have to do that in
stages. I understand Debiumn Linux in particular is very good at this.
For many applications both FreeBSD and Linux have package systems that
let you take a list of all the packages you installed and reinstall new
versions of the same packages... so you get an application upgrade for
anything you installed from a package as well. And unlike Windows
"Add/Remove Programs", this actually works.
And for the last part of your question, OS preferences are stored in
plain text files in /etc. Back it up and restore each file in there. It
can be a bit tedious and time-consuming, but at least all the files are
readable and mostly well documented, unlike the Windows Registry.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:47:41 +0100
pip wrote:
[stuff]
btw: as another aside to while I am so passionate about this :
I had to work a while ago with a passionate C++ advocate. While I have
"messed" around with C++ I really have not done anything with it,
leaving me with Java and C. Now this person REALLY looked down their
nose at me because I could not do C++ (even though I had never actually
needed to) and said that I was not a proper "software engineer" with
these "toy" languages.
The funny thing is that I wrote faster and more reliable Java code than
this person, and then when they had to go "back to c" I wrote better C
code as well. They had a problem not trying to write C++ code! They were
so pigeoned into the C++ is god, that they forgot what a good software
engineer does : solves problems elegantly with the most appropriate
tool. I've never forgotten this as it highlights the fallacy of language
wars and bigoted opinions.
The same person also looked done their nose at some VB development that
was also happening in the same office. Funny thing was, the VB code was
very successful and marketed as a very successful product. Not bad for a
toy language - it solves peoples problems. Now I am not saying that C++
is also not a good language - it is! very good, but I am saying that
this same attitude is VERY PREVALENT with so many people and it does a
HUGE disservice to everyone.
The thing I love about Linux is the way you can designed into the deep
murky details of every bit of the system. It IS a programmers dream -
but people should not get carried away that kernel code is the same
style or language that should be taken up to application level.
I would just like people to respect each language AND OS for their
respective merits and not brand people with a ridiculous stereotype
based on a snipped of what they say. I think that the thread "Dennis
Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows", highlights
that even the creator of C and Unix takes the same pragmatic line. I
would venture to say that this is the sensible line and one which
produces very good SOFTWARE ENGINEERS and computer scientists.
IMHO of course. Food for thought I hope mlw ? Feel free to retract your
assertion that PERL and Java programmers are dumb and don't understand
computers at any time.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: 12 Jun 2001 12:47:54 GMT
Thaddius Maximus wrote:
>Burkhard Wölfel wrote:
>>
>> Thaddius Maximus wrote:
>>
>> > Most all medical programs in Eurpoe are a complete disaster.
>>
>> The german system is OK for me after all.
>>
>
>In the USA I can get all new porcelain teeth (20 USD) and
>a hair transplant (20 USD) through my medical insurance
>policy. Can Europe beat that !!! ;-)
The life expectancy of a man living in the EU is 74.4 years, and the infant
mortality rate is 476 per 100,000.
Can the US beat that?
(Ans: No, your figures are 67.5 years, and 722 per 100,000)
--
Nick
------------------------------
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