Linux-Advocacy Digest #262, Volume #35 Fri, 15 Jun 01 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Windows makes good coasters ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux wins again.... (Andrew Nesbit)
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Chad Myers")
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Chad Myers")
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("Jon Johansan")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Macman)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:13:04 -0500
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 12 Jun 2001 13:42:04 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> >Since Windows 95, I have *once* had to download new video drivers for
a
> >> >particular video card I've owned (ATI Rage for Windows NT 4) and
*those*
> >> >were included with Service Pack 4.
> >> >
> >> >With *every* version of Windows since, the drivers were either
included
> >with
> >> >the OS, or included with the hardware.
> >>
> >> Yeah, but if you've lost your disk...
> >
> >Download them? DOH
>
> What if the modem drivers were on the same disk!
Hayes Generic Modem - nothing to download.
Perhaps, more likely, your modem is already on the list of thousands
supported.
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:09:05 -0500
Almost forgot:
"A program that needs 60 different libraries is depending on a very
complicated software environment to support it. As of this writing, there is
probably not a single distribution which, out of the box, provides that
environment. Upgrading to that environment is helped by the various update
services and tools that an increasing number of distributions are providing.
It is worth asking, however, just how many of you would proceed with such an
upgrade in confidence that it would work, and that nothing else would break?
As the Linux software environment becomes more complex and powerful, it also
risks becoming more brittle. The desktop will not be won as long as users
must upgrade dozens of libraries, with a good possibility of breaking their
systems, to get a new personal finance application. The desktop developers
have a serious challenge ahead of them here: make the environment robust and
easy to upgrade, or see the users wander away in frustration"
Naaaa, they won't wander away - they'll wait for developers to acknowledge
the problem and then fix it in a future version (like MS did)
"Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b2a1c7a$0$789$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Well, "DLL Hell" is no longer a valid concept or issue in Windows 2000 or
> XP. Looks like that legacy has been taken up by linux - taken from the
front
> page of Linux Weekly News (http://www.lwn.net/):
>
> "gnucash 1.6 and the dependency nightmare
>
> gnucash is perhaps the prime example of shared library dependency hell.
The
> executable requires no less than 60 different shared libraries, all, of
> course, with the right version."
>
> I'm sorry but... har! har! har!
>
> "Upgrading to GNOME 1.4 addresses many of those dependencies, but not all
of
> them."
>
> Sure, just upgrade
>
> "Dealing with the rest has proved tricky, even for people who are
accustomed
> to this sort of problem. "
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:16:04 -0500
"Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jon Johansan wrote:
>
> >
> > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Jon Johansan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Norman D. Megill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > news:OR4V6.812$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > > In article <9g2bl8$eq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> > > Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > > >Encarta, If I remember correctly, is Funk and Wagnels
Encyclopedia,
> >> > thrown
> >> > > >onto CD by Microsoft.
> >> > >
> >> > > With content added, deleted, and modified per Microsoft's marketing
> >> > > agenda.
> >> >
> >> > Untrue - prove your claim!
> >>
> >> Are you on Microsofts payroll?
> >> Do they owe you something?
> >
> > No - are you Linus' lapdog? Does ESR do your laundry?
> >
> > I spot something I don't believe true and I say something about it.
What's
> > wrong with that? How does that make me on MS's side necessarily? I say
his
> > claim is untrue and ask him to prove it - what's wrong with that?
> >
> Everything.
> If *you* say something is untrue, *you* have to prove your claim, because
> you are that MS-shill trying to sell us BS. We simply don´t believe you.
Are you that stupid for real or just on-line?
Someone else made the claim - it's THEIR responsibility to back it up.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux wins again....
From: Andrew Nesbit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:16:54 GMT
"Linux Admin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "drsquare"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:45:38 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>> ("Linux Admin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>
>>>Linux stops Solaris and the best the over priced W2K can do is come
>>>close to a tie on one benchmark while falling far behind on another!
>>
>> Benchmarks are bollocks.
>Of course you have documented evidance to show these benchmarks as
>flawed???
I'm not sure whether he meant those *specific* benchmarks are bollocks
for some particular reason, or whether benchmarks in general are bollocks.
But yes, it is a fundamental fact in the computer industry that benchmarks,
as a whole, are indeed, bollocks. The *only* way that one can tell whether
some particular software/hardware configuration meets *your* specific
performance requirements is to put use your own experience. There is an
old saying:
"Lies,
damned lies,
statistics,
then benchmarks"
There exist zillions of examples by which one can "trick" benchmarks into
performing in your favour. Compound that with the fact that most benchmarks
are done on some specific hardware/software configuration, and that
potential customers' systems are probably different to that--therefore, the
best you can possibly do is obtain a *rough* estimate of the sort of
performance you can reasonably expect.
So yeah, sometimes it is reasonable to say that Win2k is crap for such and
such or that Linux is rubbish for so and so, but if you make those judgements
based on benchmarks, then you are either a one-eyed fanatic looking for any
opportunity to push forware the OS of your choice, or you are a fool.
Meaningful benchmarks are about as common as honest politicians.
-Andrew
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:21:03 -0500
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
But I'd like to see a claim from you that may question some of MS stuff
> once in a while to balance out your arguments. Ayende does and I like
> the balance that he has.
I have never had a problem "questioning" MS "stuff" - I do so at work daily.
I do not use exclusively MS software nor am I their biggest fan. However, in
an NT advocacy forum, I tend to (surprise) advocate NT which happens to be
made by MS so these two tend to go together.
Maybe if you hit a topic about MS I don't like I'll join in... start a
thread about something we agree MS is stupid about and I'll join in if I
have something to add. But if the thread is just plain wrong (pro or con)
I'll say so. I can't imagine there is anything wrong with that. Ask me what
I think about C# and I'll tell you I think it sucks and that it looks like a
rip-off of Delphi and be happy to tell you I think MS made a mistake with
it. Ask me about the web folder traversal patch (first version) or the
exchange 2000 OWA first (and 2nd) version patches and I'll too join you
bitching about MSs sometimes lack of QA and testing in their rush to get a
patch out quickly (probably to address some whinning about taking too long
to regression test - I would gladly wait for a few more days on a patch so
long as I knew it would work right, the exposure time is worth the risk of
something worse from a bad patch).
You are mistaken and underestimate me if you think I blindly worship MS and
think Gates is god - equally wrong if you believe I think Linus is satan and
linux is hell. I just call them like I see them, I don't do so blindly.
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:25:07 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Jon Johansan in alt.destroy.microsoft on 12 Jun 2001 13:37:05
> >"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >> > > With content added, deleted, and modified per Microsoft's marketing
> >> > > agenda.
> >> >
> >> > Untrue - prove your claim!
> >>
> >> Are you on Microsofts payroll?
> >> Do they owe you something?
> >
> >No
>
> Do you own Microsoft stock? Are you employed by a "Microsoft partner"?
Yes. No.
>
> > - are you Linus' lapdog? Does ESR do your laundry?
>
> He asked where you were employed by a particular company, and you ask if
> he is a 'lapdog' to a kernel for GNU software? Do you see why his
> position might be more valid than yours, at this point?
Not when it's obvious that these were more likely intended as a slight
rather than innocent questions.
>
> >I spot something I don't believe true and I say something about it.
>
> Well, if you want to have any validity in that position, you're going to
> have to come up with some convincing reason why you don't believe it is
> true.
I do not have to do this. Have you never actually heard of this concept:
Someone makes a claim.
Someone else asks them to prove it.
Is this a new thing? Unusual in any way? I didn't think so. What is your
problem with that. Why on earth would the person asking for proof need to
prove the opposite first? that's utterly silly.
>
>
> >What's
> >wrong with that?
>
> We don't believe it is true, that's what's wrong with that. We think
> you are being dishonest, pretending that something is untrue because you
> wish it were untrue, rather than the fact that you know it is untrue.
Excuse me but you are really going out on a broken limb here... see my
previous comment/
>
> >How does that make me on MS's side necessarily?
>
> The fact that Microsoft has changed Encarta content based on marketing
> strategy rather than factual reference data. If you were simply unaware
> that they had done this, it would be one thing, but apparently you are
> aware that it is true but you are claiming it is not true. This makes
> you on MS's side, necessarily, since it is no their behalf that you are
> acting dishonestly.
>
> >I say his
> >claim is untrue and ask him to prove it - what's wrong with that?
>
> Again, the reason why you asked. It is dishonest. We already know this
> fact is true; it is easily accessible through public knowledge. You are
> denying it is true, without any reason, and without any evidence, and
> without any argument. That's an 'argument from ignorance', not an
> argument. What's wrong with that is that it is a logical fallacy.
Look - your arguments are completely flawed and I'll repeat my original
comments.
Someone made a claim:
to wit: "With content added, deleted, and modified per Microsoft's marketing
agenda."
I stated my opinion that that is untrue and asked for proof of their claim
to wit: "Untrue - prove your claim!"
Content added,deteted or modified - I'm certain of it and that's easily
proven by comparing pre-MS editions with MS editions.
"per Microsoft's marketing agenda" - I believe that is untrue and ask you to
prove your claim.
That's the bottom line.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: 15 Jun 2001 11:28:17 -0400
The LWN writer was frustrated at having to install a lot of new versions
to get the latest gnucash working, and exaggerated the situation as "DLL
Hell", forgetting that new shared libraries won't break old apps. "DLL
Hell" refers to an installer overwriting an old DLL with a new one,
mysteriously breaking old apps.
If installing the latest version is that much of a pain, wait for the
gnucash .deb or .rpm to come out. Dependencies will be resolved for
you, and old stuff won't break.
--
Bruce R. Lewis http://brl.sourceforge.net/
I rarely read mail sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:29:20 -0500
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > lesse... $1000 for hard copy of Encyclopedia that is never updated and
> > contains no "live" data or links.
> > $damn-near-free for CD ROM Encyclopedia that is live and can be updated
and
> > contains more diverse types of information?
> >
> > there is a decision to be made here?
>
> No. The hard copy is far superior, if you can afford it.
I do not believe the hard copy is superior, let alone "far superiour"
The hard copy (printed) cannot play the sound whales make or let me watch
the Zapruder film to judge whether he recoiled backwards from a front side
bullet strike. hard copy does not make it effortless to jump from one topic
to a related and hyperlinked other topic (likely in a seperate volume). Hard
copy is out of date by the time it leaves the printing press and is
delivered to me. Hard copy does not link to the Internet where the most
recent news can be found.
I do not agree with you, even ignoring price.
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:31:03 -0500
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g7msk$94t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "drsquare"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:12:05 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > (Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> >>Jon Johansan wrote:
> >>>
> >>> lesse... $1000 for hard copy of Encyclopedia that is never updated and
> >>> contains no "live" data or links.
> >>> $damn-near-free for CD ROM Encyclopedia that is live and can be
> >>> updated
> >>> and contains more diverse types of information?
> >>>
> >>> there is a decision to be made here?
> >>
> >>No. The hard copy is far superior, if you can afford it.
> >
> > No, it's not.
>
> It is in some ways. Print is much easier to read than a
> computer screen due having a much higher resoulution and contrast.
Obviously you have never read from a LCD screen using ClearType. Whoa!
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:32:24 -0500
"Peter Köhlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > Who cares what you run in your home. We're talking about
> > real businesses making critical decisions that effect their
> > bottom line. It appears that they don't chose Linux.
> >
>
> Yeah, yeah, Chad. By your definition IBM is no *real* business.
No, they're a real business, they just make poor decisions.
I'm talking about Linux-based companies, of which IBM is not.
> Moron.
At least I can read and have basic readic comprehension skills,
which you obviously do not posses.
Try 3rd grade again, maybe you could then communicate
effectively with the "grown-ups".
*PLONK*
Name calling is very immature.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:34:13 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Jon Johansan in alt.destroy.microsoft on 12 Jun 2001 13:24:23
> >Damn, they should have left the original in
> >there, made him sound cooler than just another rich guy giving away tons
of
> >cash money to the needy...
>
> So why didn't they?
Who knows?
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:35:40 -0500
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9gbeb5$mg9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <3b28c6fa$0$94313$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9g84lp$imm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> I think that is a good thing. A single smoker can affect many
> >> >> nonsmokers around himself. it really is a very deply unpleasant
> >> >> thing to put up with if your not a smoker. Basically if you're
> >> >> sensitive to cigarette smoke you are completely prevented from going
> >> >> to places where people are free to smoke.
> >> >
> >> > Exactly. This goes back to my "your freedom prevents others'
> >> > freedoms". You can smoke all you want in your house or car, but don't
> >> > stand right outside my office building and breathe your smoke on
> >> > everyone that passes by. I have Asthma and it's a serious deal when I
> >> > breathe smoke. Perhaps I'll sue the tobacco companies and get $3
> >> > billion too =)
> >> > (j/k).
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree in this entirely. It is very unevnly weighted, one smoker can
> >> "suppress" many other people at the same time which is why I think that
> >> it should go in favour of the non smoker. I home that some time soom we
> >> get really strict non smoking laws in the UK soon. Unfortunately, I
> >> doubt this will be the case, but at least indoor public places are
> >> mainly non smoking.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >> Ha ha! LOL! We always get packets full of "Sillica Gel Do Not Eat".
> >> >> Well, that's what I assume its called because that's always written
> >> >> on the packets :-)
> >> >
> >> > I have a saying... "If there's a sign warning against it, that means
> >> > someone actually tried it". Apparently, they had a problem with
> >> > people
> >>
> >> I never thought of that, but I can see the logic.
> >>
> >> > eating Sillica Gel at one point. I also noticed the signs at the
> >> > airport
> >>
> >> The mind boggles. Why on earth would people think that random products
> >> came with a little bit of food for them to eat?
> >
> > I think it has to do more with children. My son attempts to put
> > everything in his mouth. If I'm not careful to keep EVERYTHING out of
> > his reach, it goes directly in his mouth. Granted, he doesn't EAT
> > everything, but I could see how some children might actually think it's
> > candy.
>
> I wouldn't have thought they'd pay much attention to the "Do Not Eat"
> label.
LOL. Good point. I think it's more for the parents =)
-c
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:37:10 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said green in alt.destroy.microsoft on Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:46:41 +1000;
> >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On 11 Jun 2001 11:10:02 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> >> ("Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Norman D. Megill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:OR4V6.812$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> In article <9g2bl8$eq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> >> Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> >Encarta, If I remember correctly, is Funk and Wagnels Encyclopedia,
> >> >thrown
> >> >> >onto CD by Microsoft.
> >> >>
> >> >> With content added, deleted, and modified per Microsoft's marketing
> >> >> agenda.
> >> >
> >> >Untrue - prove your claim!
> >>
> >> Prove they haven't.
> >
> >ah the very long task challenge that would take too long any way to win
the
> >argument.
> >and being an reference source it should have changed (updated with
current
> >knowledge where appropriate)
> >
> >the best way to lie is to tell the truth unconvincingly
> >the second best way is to tell a almost truth. (a version of the truth)
>
> You're sputtering. The fact is, MS *has* changed, added, deleted, and
> modified content according to their marketing strategy, with little or
> no regard for factual integrity.
Oh no, not so fast:
It IS fact that whomever writes the content for Encarta under employ by MS
DOES change, add and delete that content. yes, true.
It is NOT fact that this is done "according to their marketing strategy" - I
do not believe that claim and ask you to prove it.
Factual integrity is something that can be literally assertained. Find a
factual error and unless you can prove that it is intentionally inaccurate I
would say you are again wrong. Find me a printed encyclopedia that does not
contain some factual error - would you claim the reason for the factual
error is because of bias on the part of the publishers/authors - or that
it's just an error that needs to be fixed.
Paranoia is a treatable disease...
------------------------------
From: Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:38:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <9gd42g$3bj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > You, as a user, have certain rights under the fair use doctrine.
> > > Presumably, looking at the text only, or changing fonts, or similar
> > > things would fall under fair use.
> > >
> > > Microsoft, as a third party, does not have the same rights. They do have
> > > the rights to fair use, but what they're doing would almost certainly
> > > not fall under that doctrine.
> > >
> > > Your analogy stinks.
> >
> > Don't I, as the user, have a right to *want* those smart tags?
>
> Do you think it is an option you have to turn ON or turn OFF? :) If it is,
> indeed, an option you can turn ON, you as a user, have the "right" to want
> to turn it on and it is fine. However, if it is an option ON from the
> beginning, MS has choosen the default behaviour of the browser and only the
> minority will turn it off, or even will know how. :)
There's another issue, though.
Even if it's off by default and the user can turn it on, there's still
the potential for vast abuse by Microsoft -- since they are the ones who
set the default smart tags. To me, that's a much larger issue than
whether it's on or off.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:38:39 -0500
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
> >
> > >>>>You think conservatives want people to become educated?
> > >>>>Look at their education bills. They don't want you to have a clue about
the
> > >>>>true history of this country. Because if you did, you'd realize what
true
> > >>>>scoundrels they are. You sound as if you are their poster boy.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>You need to hit the books pal, and open your mind.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>For the first time in 8 years the USA has an education policy
> > >>>under the Bush Administration. Under the Clinton Administration
> > >>>the education policy consisted of nothing more than Slick Willie
> > >>>chasing school girls his daughter's age.
> > >>>
> > >>Oh yeah, and removing all trace of religious freedom at the local
> > >>level, not to mention spreading abortion propaganda and sex
> > >>education which consisted of teachers encouraging students to
> > >>lie on top of each other.
> > >>
> > >>-c
> > >>
> > >
> > > Man, things sure have changed since I was in school!
> > >
> >
> > I'm not too sure about the US education system, but could someone please
> > go into detail on how/why it has degraded?
> >
> > Matthew Gardiner
>
> Hmmm... IMO it's more of a cultural thing than anything else... but it's
> not really 'cool' for kids to be engaged by school... kids believe that
> getting grades and getting into college are more important than
> learning, so they cheat/float by.
>
> Also, kids get cynical by low teacher/child ratios. One huge problem is
> that parents are apathetic and would rather watch Survivor than go to
> PTA meetings, and they take teacher criticism of their children as
> insults and get defensive and work against the teacher rather than with
> them.
>
> My mom is a teacher so I should know.
Here I go with my conservative rant again, but it has everything to do
with the parents in this country. People have no responsibility for
anything any more. 15 year old kids are having kids now (I just read a
news story about a girl with two kids and was pregnant again at 16!).
Where are the parents? They're busy trying to collect more welfare,
or shooting heroin or smoking crack.
A friend of my Wife's was in college to be a teacher and was in
her 3rd year training program where they are actually in a classroom
assisting a real teacher. I believe it was a 3rd grade class and
she was having a problem with a boy masturbating during class.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:41:08 -0500
"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g61de$2d5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Does that figure include the 200CD's I have burnt over the last year for
> people?
>
Perhaps if you read the article you'd know why the answer is no and how that
doesn't change anything.
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:41:09 -0500
Perhaps if you read the article you'd know why the answer is no and how that
doesn't change anything.
"pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
> >
> > Does that figure include the 200CD's I have burnt over the last year for
> > people?
>
> Hmmmmm. How about the CD's that I have let friends borrow or the ones I
> have burnt for colleagues ? Does it include all the systems that my
> friend now installs with Linux ?
------------------------------
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