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On 01/09/2007, at 09:42, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> It is not about PHP, Python, or kernel programming. I do believe it
> begins and ends with people. This may sound less practical than
> developing specific skills to some, but - IMHO - that's only when you
> think short term.
I think it's a bit more complex than you represent. The two reasons I
haven't left my company long ago, despite the relatively low salary,
are the work hours (I leave at 6 - except when there's a production
problem or a very rare thing like database upgrade or other night
job), and my skills (problem solving, integration) are appreciated
enough to have relegated the mundane build-yet-another-page tasks to
other programmers.
Nevertheless, when we hire new people, we look for some basic skills.
We usually concern ourselves less with operator precedence (who
cares?) and more with awareness of security issues (Do they check
user input for single quotes? HTML?), error checking, concurrency
issues (reading, then modifying data), and instruction reading
(people sometimes fail to read the exact directions in the test). But
we do prefer people who already know PHP to people who don't know and
will have to spend several weeks learning the language (or go to a
course). Experience is important, it cannot be ignored. Of course,
when we had candidates that sounded smart and resourceful in the
interview, we were more lenient.
A business needs to continue its day-to-day work, and there is enough
to learn about the particular expertise of the company, without
adding additional weeks which may require disrupting someone else's
busy schedule to explain things to him, check his progress, and so
on. It's especially true when you don't know whether he'll turn out
to be a good programmer in the end, or a bad one who somehow writes
programs that work, but there is no code re-use, error checking,
comments, and consideration for end cases. When he turns out to be
bad, you have lost your investment.
A business needs to think both short and long term.
In addition to all that, there is the issue of getting your foot in
the door. If you're a smart, methodical programmer who can see the
"greater picture", and haven't written a line of C code since
university, and if you're the same, but wrote a patch to the kernel
that got accepted, which one will be called for an interview, based
on their CV? HR people and even technical people tend to get a lot of
CVs which are irrelevant, and people just send "because it wouldn't
hurt". The first sifting is done by removing all the ones that are
not even close, and I've yet to find a person who'd see my "Good
problem solving skills" in my CV and say "hey, that's one worth
keeping". These skills help you when you get hired by word of mouth.
I have at least one job offer based on someone knowing me personally,
who is willing to let me learn at the expense of his company -
because I basically taught him how to program and he knows my worth.
(Unfortunately, he happens to be my best friend, and mixing business
with friendship is a recipe for disaster, especially in our case - we
are both short tempered. Otherwise I'd have accepted that job offer
long ago).
Herouth
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On 01/09/2007, at =
09:42, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><P =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Arial">It is not about PHP, Python, or kernel =
programming. I do believe it</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px =
0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
Arial">begins and ends with people. This may sound less practical =
than</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT =
face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Arial">developing =
specific skills to some, but - IMHO - that's only when you</FONT></P> <P =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Arial">think short term.</FONT></P> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV>I think it's a bit more complex than you =
represent. The two reasons I haven't left my company long ago, despite =
the relatively low salary, are the work hours (I leave at 6 - except =
when there's a production problem or a very rare thing like database =
upgrade or other night job), and my skills (problem solving, =
integration) are appreciated enough to have relegated the mundane =
build-yet-another-page tasks to other programmers.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Nevertheless, when we hire =
new people, we look for some basic skills. We usually concern ourselves =
less with operator precedence (who cares?) and more with awareness of =
security issues (Do they check user input for single quotes? HTML?), =
error checking, concurrency issues (reading, then modifying data), and =
instruction reading (people sometimes fail to read the exact directions =
in the test). But we do prefer people who already know PHP to people who =
don't know and will have to spend several weeks learning the language =
(or go to a course). Experience is important, it cannot be ignored. Of =
course, when we had candidates that sounded smart and resourceful in the =
interview, we were more lenient.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A business needs to =
continue its day-to-day work, and there is enough to learn about the =
particular expertise of the company, without adding additional weeks =
which may require disrupting someone else's busy schedule to explain =
things to him, check his progress, and so on. It's especially true when =
you don't know whether he'll turn out to be a good programmer in the =
end, or a bad one who somehow writes programs that work, but there is no =
code re-use, error checking, comments, and consideration for end cases. =
When he turns out to be bad, you have lost your =
investment.</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A =
business needs to think both short and long term.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>In addition to all that, =
there is the issue of getting your foot in the door. If you're a smart, =
methodical programmer who can see the "greater picture", and haven't =
written a line of C code since university, and if you're the same, but =
wrote a patch to the kernel that got accepted, which one will be called =
for an interview, based on their CV? HR people and even technical people =
tend to get a lot of CVs which are irrelevant, and people just send =
"because it wouldn't hurt". The first sifting is done by removing all =
the ones that are not even close, and I've yet to find a person who'd =
see my "Good problem solving skills" in my CV and say "hey, that's one =
worth keeping". These skills help you when you get hired by word of =
mouth. I have at least one job offer based on someone knowing me =
personally, who is willing to let me learn at the expense of his company =
- because I basically taught him how to program and he knows my worth. =
(Unfortunately, he happens to be my best friend, and mixing business =
with friendship is a recipe for disaster, especially in our case - we =
are both short tempered. Otherwise I'd have accepted that job offer long =
ago).</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Herouth</DIV></BODY></HTML>=
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