Linux-Misc Digest #675, Volume #21                Sun, 5 Sep 99 02:13:14 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Help!  I screwed up fstab kernel panics (Gene Wilburn)
  Re: Wrong time setup? (Jack Zhu)
  Re: fsck after power failure (Leonard Evens)
  Re: My Linux crashes more often than M$ (muzh)
  Re: PPP Speed problem (Bill Unruh)
  Re: fsck after power failure (Leonard Evens)
  Re: Amiga, QNX, Linux and Revolution (Joe Cosby)
  Re: Wrong time setup? (Leonard Evens)
  /etc/conf.modules (Jen & Dan Harris)
  Re: Wrong time setup? (Jack Zhu)
  Re: Problems with SATAN, HELP ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: Notepad for Linux? (Bev)
  Re: Sound help needed (Glenn Meuth)
  Is it possible to rename bunch of files need to left padd to ceratin size (ramdan)
  Re: /etc/conf.modules (Vladimir Florinski)
  General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Lizard)
  Re: 3-d plotting (Vladimir Florinski)
  Re: I WANT TO DITCH WINDOZE BUT I CANT!!! (Nick Danger)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gene Wilburn)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Help!  I screwed up fstab kernel panics
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 03:11:57 GMT

On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:34:36 -0400, Tom Baldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Help!
>
>The message says it all.  I tried to reduce the size of an empty primary DOS
>partition (using cfdisk) from 2 gig to about 100 megs and then used cfdisk
>to partition the 1.9 gigs into several partitions of type Linux.  I did not
>change the mount statement in the fstab, and this (I think/hope) is what's
>causing the kernel panic.  During boot up, the following line :
>
>sda: sda1  sda2< sda5 sda6 sda7 sda8 sda9 sda10 sda11 sda 12>
>
>appears, followed by 3 lines, all relating (I think) to the DOS partition.
>The first begins starting with:
>[MS-DOS FS Rel. 12,FAT 16,...
>
>I get a line about Transaction Block Size = 524, then the line:
>
>Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:05
>
>The rescue disk I made before starting in with this foolishness  produces
>read errors.
>
>If it is the fstab file I need to fix, anybody have any ideas about how i
>get to it?  I f you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

If your rescue disk is dinged, then go to a PC somewhere and download
tomsrtbt -- there is a version you can install from DOS.

http://www.toms.net/~toehser/rb/

tomsrtbt is a Linux-on-a-disketter. Use this as your rescue disk, mount the
partition that contains /etc, and edit the fstab file.

Gene

-- 
I've got a bad feeling about this!  -- Han Solo

------------------------------

From: Jack Zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Wrong time setup?
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 23:15:33 -0400

Leonard Evens wrote:

> Jack Zhu wrote:
> >
> > RH6.0
> >
> > When I use the 'timetool' of GNOME to setup the system time and after
> > reboot, the time is worng!
> >
> > For example, use 'time tool' to reset time to '8:15PM', after reboot the
> > time is changed to '4:15PM' or other time which is also wrong.
> >
> > My PC dual boot with NT 4.0 svr and RH6.0, time setting in NT has no
> > such problem, the BIOS setting is also right.
> >
> > Any idea? Thanks a lot!!
> Run /usr/sbin/timeconfig.  You will get the same screen you got
> during installation where you move among choices with the tab
> and arrow keys and you mark boxes with the space key.  If the
> first line referring to GMT has an X in it press the space key
> to toggle it off.  Then continue by choosing your timezone
> and exist the program.
>
> More simply look at /etc/sysconfig/clock and make sure the two
> entries are set to false.
>
> You may have to reboot and/or reset the system time and clock
> time with timetool.  Or you can do it in a terminal window with
> date and clock.
> --
>
> Leonard Evens      [EMAIL PROTECTED]      847-491-5537
> Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208

THanks. I tried all, but the time is still wrong. Any idea?




------------------------------

From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: fsck after power failure
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 21:45:26 -0500

Ollie wrote:
> 
> I am having a similar problem (I think)
> 
> I shut down my computer normally last night, but when booting this morning
> I get an error message saying there was a problem with my file system on
> /dev/hdc5 . After a series of tests it told me this:
> "/dev/hdc5 : 2 inodes containing duplicate bad blocks
> /dev/hdc5 File /var/log/wtmp (inode # 26587 has 6 duplicate blocks shared
> with 1 file:
> /dev/hdc5 File /var/log/messages (inode # 26535)"
> 
> It then goes on to say that I should "RUN fsck MANUALLY" and recommends I
> use the -a or -p options. Then I get dropped into a shell and am asked for
> my root password.
> 
> So I enter my root password and try "fsck -a" but it doesn't seem to do
> anything. it just tells me what version of fsck I have and returns me to
> the prompt. same thing for "fsck -p", "fsck --help" and "fsck -?"
> Rebooting after each of these attempts changes nothing to the error
> messages during boot-up.

According to the fsck man page, these options use CAPITAL letters.

But I think all you need to do is

fsck /dev/hdc5

Give the default answer to all the questions and you should be
okay.

> 
> Also, where it asks me to enter my su password it also says that I can do
> Control-D to continue a normal boot-up. but it doesn't work. All it does is
> re-boot and I end up where I started.

No.  You have to fix the file system first.
> 
> I am very new at Linux so I really don't have a clue what to do next.
> 
> If anybody can help that would be greatly appreciated.
>      http://www.searchlinux.com

-- 

Leonard Evens      [EMAIL PROTECTED]      847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208

------------------------------

From: muzh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: My Linux crashes more often than M$
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 15:50:09 +1200

I used to have TERRIBLE troubles with this problem of random freezes --
and all my questions to newsgroups etc seemed to elicit answers that it
is a "hardware problem".  Not very helpful for a newbie --
However, I am now running SuSE6.1 with its stock IDE kernel2.2.5, and
have reconfigured my Linux hard disk to use Normal CHS addressing, and
NOT LBA addressing.  This seems to have *Almost* completely cured the
freezing -- the only freeze I had was when trying to redial with Kppp
too fast (which might have happened in *any* OS!!)
Hope these random thoughts shed some light on the situation --

cll

Ken Wong wrote:
> 
> Noah Roberts (jik-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in <877lmhm7c7.fsf@Ill-
> Logic.burn>:
> 
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charles E. Taylor IV) writes:
> >
> >
> >As to the subject......
> >
> >I too have been having Linux troubles as of late....it freezes
> >completely at seemingly random intervals.  I have reinstalled from
> >scratch now and it hasn't happened again...yet...its only been 3 days.
> 
> Me too.  I am using Mandrake 6.0, which is suppose to be very similar to
> RedHat 6.0.
> 
> It does freeze very randomly, without reason.  Sometimes when I am using vi,
> sometimes using less, sometimes when I am scrolling through Netscape.  And
> when it freezes I have to reboot the machine.
(snip)

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Subject: Re: PPP Speed problem
Date: 5 Sep 1999 03:55:24 GMT

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ORRIN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:03:02 GMT, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>At 38400 & 115200, pppd fails to negotiate the session with the BSDI
>host.

Why? What were the pppd debug logs?
We cannot guess what you have and what you have tried etc. You have to
tell us. The more information you give the more probable it is that you
will get an answer.

------------------------------

From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: fsck after power failure
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 21:48:54 -0500

Ollie wrote:
> 
> I am having a similar problem (I think)
> 
> I shut down my computer normally last night, but when booting this morning
> I get an error message saying there was a problem with my file system on
> /dev/hdc5 . After a series of tests it told me this:
> "/dev/hdc5 : 2 inodes containing duplicate bad blocks
> /dev/hdc5 File /var/log/wtmp (inode # 26587 has 6 duplicate blocks shared
> with 1 file:
> /dev/hdc5 File /var/log/messages (inode # 26535)"
> 
> It then goes on to say that I should "RUN fsck MANUALLY" and recommends I
> use the -a or -p options. Then I get dropped into a shell and am asked for
> my root password.
> 

I'm sorry.  I read the man page too quickly.   There is an -a
option for automatically fixing the file system.   But I still
think if you just do

fsck /dev/hdc5

you will be okay.
>
-- 

Leonard Evens      [EMAIL PROTECTED]      847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe Cosby)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.qnx,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Amiga, QNX, Linux and Revolution
Date: 5 Sep 1999 03:55:34 GMT

** To reply in e-mail, remove "bipcyk." from address **

Jeffrey Webster hunched over his computer, typing feverishly;
thunder crashed, Jeffrey Webster laughed madly, then wrote:
> Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sure, teh QNX microkernel is pretty uncrashable. But have you ever asked
> > yourself why? Maybe because it doesn't do all that much.
> > 
> 
>  Two points to be made here.

>  Second.  Directed at Linus -  Don't post in comp.sys.amiga.misc.  It
> seems that executives, associates, and partners to Amiga disappear
> shortly after.  If you worked for Amiga, and you got lost -- no big deal
> really.  However, YOU are not so insignificant.  ;)  Of course, I'm only
> being facetious.  But, should we really test this superstition of the
> "Amiga Curse"?  >grin<
> 

Whatever you do, Mr. Torvalds:  AVOID PICTURES OF KING TUT!

In fact, don't even read this message, just to be on the safe
side.

--
Joe Cosby

Amiga Fanatic

------------------------------

From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Wrong time setup?
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 21:56:24 -0500

Jack Zhu wrote:
> 
> RH6.0
> 
> When I use the 'timetool' of GNOME to setup the system time and after
> reboot, the time is worng!
> 
> For example, use 'time tool' to reset time to '8:15PM', after reboot the
> time is changed to '4:15PM' or other time which is also wrong.
> 
> My PC dual boot with NT 4.0 svr and RH6.0, time setting in NT has no
> such problem, the BIOS setting is also right.
> 
> Any idea? Thanks a lot!!
Run /usr/sbin/timeconfig.  You will get the same screen you got
during installation where you move among choices with the tab
and arrow keys and you mark boxes with the space key.  If the
first line referring to GMT has an X in it press the space key
to toggle it off.  Then continue by choosing your timezone
and exist the program.

More simply look at /etc/sysconfig/clock and make sure the two
entries are set to false. 

You may have to reboot and/or reset the system time and clock
time with timetool.  Or you can do it in a terminal window with
date and clock.
-- 

Leonard Evens      [EMAIL PROTECTED]      847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208

------------------------------

From: Jen & Dan Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: /etc/conf.modules
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 22:59:34 -0500

Could someone please post a copy of their /etc/conf.modules file.

Preferably from a RH 6.0 system with a printer setup as a module.

Thanks 

Dan Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

------------------------------

From: Jack Zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Wrong time setup?
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 23:14:43 -0400

Paul Kimoto wrote:

> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jack Zhu wrote:
> > When I use the 'timetool' of GNOME to setup the system time and after
> > reboot, the time is worng!
> >
> > For example, use 'time tool' to reset time to '8:15PM', after reboot the
> > time is changed to '4:15PM' or other time which is also wrong.
>
> This could occur because the system, when you boot, believes that your
> hardware keeps the time in GMT [== UTC].  (This is the standard, correct
> Unix convention.)
>
> > My PC dual boot with NT 4.0 svr and RH6.0, time setting in NT has no
> > such problem, the BIOS setting is also right.
>
> --
> Paul Kimoto             <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

THanks, but how can I do this?


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Problems with SATAN, HELP
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 03:33:40 GMT

Warren Bell wrote:
> 
> :) I'm trying to install SATAN on Mandrake Linux 6.0.  I've tried both
> the prepatched tarball and rebuilding the SRC RPM on my machine.  They
> both get the same error and quit.  Does anyone know what could be
> causing it and how I can get around it?

Hi,

I am not sure of the problem, but I think it is related to glibc2.1 Go
to Linuxberg and download a saint1.4 from there. For that, you can do a

make linux-glibc21

and it will (hopefully) solve your problem. It did solve for me.

Vilmos

------------------------------

From: Bev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Notepad for Linux?
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 21:28:59 -0700

"Christopher R. Carlen" wrote:
> 
> Andrew Purugganan wrote:
> >
> > Is there a Notepad-like tool for Linux? Please don't give me somthing
> > that needs GNOME/KDE Thanks Please reply by e-mail
> 
> Try Nedit, aswedit, or pico.

kedit works fine without KDE, as do a lot of other nifty little
k-utilities.

-- 
Cheers,
Bev    
=================================================
It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping.


------------------------------

From: Glenn Meuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.slackware,alt.linux.slakware,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Sound help needed
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:34:09 -0600

Well, lsmod will tell you if the module is in use . . . but I can't be much help from
there.  I assume you have already set up the card with pnpdump & isapnp . . .
Glenn

"J. Escalante" wrote:

> Cooper wrote:
>
> > JERE WAMBLE wrote:
> > >
> > >  I have a pnp ess 1869  card and I  have had no seccess in getting it to
> > > work. However, I do seem to have made one small  step on the road. I
> > > don't know  exactly how I did it, but I recompiled and when I boot up i
> > > see something to the effect
> > > ESS003  ess1869 card at Blah-blah location is ok.
> > > also, some other line that says the card is ok.
> > >
> > > However, I don't have any luck past there. When I check /dev/audio, I
> > > see the file there, but when I try to cat a file to it , I get the
> > > message
> > > "/dev/audio-no such device"
> > > I suppose this might be the problem, but not sure if it is the one, or
> > > the only one. I don't know what to do from here. I am not familiar wit
> > > the MAKDEV, or whatever, or even if I need to use it since the file is
> > > there, but not initialized.
> > > If someone could help, I would really appreciate it. It would sure help
> > > get further away from Windows. I have Slackware 4.0, with KDE. I have
> > > had sound working on another computer with Slackware 3.6, but no luck
> > > here. I do NOT really understand isapnp, but my tinkering around with it
> > > might be okay since I see the messages above on bootup.
> >
> > The line about card blah blah ok looks like it indeed came from isapnp
> > meaning that your PnP card got initialised.
> > The thing about PnP devices is that support for them *MUST* be compiled
> > as a module. If you don't do it the kernel gets started first, along
> > with the support for the card which will fail because the card wasn't
> > initialised yet (which is what isapnp does). Isapnp can't start until
> > the kernel starts the rc.* files.
> > What you need to do is add lines to your /etc/conf.modules that
> > specifies the settings of your sound device.
> > Look in the Documentation subdir of the Linux sources for hints on that.
> > I don't have your card so I can't help you much further with this, but
> > this should at least point you in the right direction.
> >
> > Oh, one more thing. The 'files' in /dev (they're devices!) aren't there
> > for what's in your system, but for what Linux would allow in your
> > system. And with that I mean Linux in general. Your kernel compilation
> > will typically exclude certain devices. That the device node is there
> > doesn't mean that there's actually a device behind it or that support
> > for it has been compiled into the kernel.
> >
> > Test if your soundcard had been found by the system with 'cat
> > /dev/sndstat'.
> >
> > Cooper
> > ---
> > Quake 3 made me do it!
>
> I have a similar problem, only that I have a Audio Excel that emulates SB16.
> At the time I compiled the kernel, I specified that the card I had was one
> that emulates SoundBlaster 16/32/etc. My question is, how can determine
> whether the sound card module has been installed and if it is the wrong
> module trouble shoot it?


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ramdan)
Subject: Is it possible to rename bunch of files need to left padd to ceratin size
Date: 4 Sep 1999 21:53:01 -0500

I have 3000 files need to make all of them 18 characters in size and left 
padded with zeros if less than 18 characters

is this possible

------------------------------

From: Vladimir Florinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: /etc/conf.modules
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 21:58:36 -0700

Jen & Dan Harris wrote:
> 
> Could someone please post a copy of their /etc/conf.modules file.
> 
> Preferably from a RH 6.0 system with a printer setup as a module.
> 

alias parport_lowlevel parport_pc
options parport_pc io=0x378,0x278 irq=7,auto

-- 


Vladimir

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lizard)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: 5 Sep 1999 04:54:05 GMT

OK, finally managed to get Linux (Redhat 6.0) installed on my PC *and* 
seeing my SDSL line (the last was the tricksy bit). Ah, at last! I shall be 
free of the eternally crashing Windows OS and the tyranny of Chairman Bill! 
Liberty shall be mine!

Er...maybe.

First off, I must be some sort of God of System Failure, as 'crashproof' 
Linux bombed on me with Gatesian frequency. A few samples:
a)When I installed my ethernet card (using linuxconf). It nicely installed, 
and I could then 'ping' anywhere I wanted, proving I was on the net, DNS 
was working, etc. Tried to launch Netscape. Nothing happened. Tried some 
other apps. Nothing happened. Tried to logout (this is all under Gnome, 
BTW). Nothing happened. No windows could open, it seemed. Finally had to do 
a power-down to get out of it.

b)Installed 'metacard' (a hypercard clone) off the Redhat applications CD. 
Tried to run the demo. My screen went black and my mouse decided to move to 
the lefthand side of the screen without my hand being on it. Charming. 
Again, power-down was the only solution. (I did get the application to run, 
but I've been afraid to try the demo since then.)

c)Not quite a  crash, but several times, when I have tried to go to a page 
that 404s under netscape, netscape just closes down. Charming again. (Go to 
the Linuxberg page, go to Gnome software, go to Newsreaders, click on the 
first one, it's the only 5-penguin product. Try to go to the home page. 
Kaboom!)

d)A few other crashes, I forget the circumstances. Rather than the robust 
he-man operating system I was expecting, I find I am terrified to do 
anything, for fear of having to reboot yet again. (At least when Windows 
crashes, it displays a dialog box TELLING you it has crashed. Linux just 
sits there, taunting you.) (I know, I know, "I kept my Linux box running 
for 14 months and it only stopped because the local power plant exploded." 
But let me guess -- it was running as a server, happily chugging through a 
limited set of routines. It didn't actually have a real human being 
pounding on it, running dubious shareware, mucking with config files, etc, 
did it? Aha. Didn't think so.)

Now, on to software. First off, has anyone thought of putting in the 
INSTALL text file words to the effect of "you better untar this from /, 
otherwise, you'll end up creating a zillion useless directories where you 
don't want them because there's no way to tell tar to go to the root to 
start?" Apparently not. Do not assume your users intuitively know where 
software is 'supposed' to go, especially if they've been trained on OSes 
that don't give a damn.

First task, of course, is to find a decent newsreader. It appears there 
aren't any, at least if I want to use something a little more 
sophisiticated than trn, tin, slrn, or other 'cat walking on the keyboard' 
inspired names. Those were lovely in 1980. This is almost 2000. I couldn't 
find anything under X to compare with Newswatcher on the Mac or Free Agent 
under Windows. Ditto, nothing to match Eudora for mail.

Of course, of the software I did find, I couldn't get any of it to run. I 
attempted to install Doom (shareware version) and Gnomehack (A gnome-
enabled version of nethack). 

Doom:Untarred it into my home directory. Discovered that it really wanted 
to be untarred from the root directory. Tried to copy it there, found out I 
had to BE root to copy it to \, su'ed to root, tried it again, untarred it, 
tried to run it...got some random 'file not found' error.

Gnomehack:More-or-less the same phenomenon. Addendum:The INSTALL file for 
nethack tells you that, when you're done, to just type 'nethack' and play! 
Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you the nethack executable is buried in the 
src directory. It also didn't work.

Thus far, this has been inauspicious. I'm not giving up -- I know most of 
my problems are due more to newbie cluelessness than OS problems, and I 
intend to dive in to man pages, documentation, etc, in order to figure out 
what I'm doing wrong. But there's plenty of people who won't make the 
effort, and, if you REALLY want to unseat Chairman Bill, you've got to 
think about them.

A few suggestions, mostly random:
Why the SMEG does X write output to STDOUT when you can't SEE it until you 
leave X? At the very least, the user should have the option of all error 
messages being written to an X Terminal visible on their desktop. There's 
nothing like shutting down X and seeing a screenful of error messages which 
would have been a lot more helpful to know about WHEN I GENERATED THEM!

If you are going to have a taskbar at the bottom of the screen, make sure 
the applications know it is there. Maximizing Netscape hides the taskbar, 
for example. For that matter, clicking on the various task buttons (like, 
to bring up one of my terminals) just plays a pretty 'boing' sound. I have 
to manually minimize windows to find the one I want. So what's the point? 
(Maybe some error message was displayed...on the text screen I can't see 
'cause I'm running X!)

Is it just me, or is X rather, uhm, sluggish? I have a PII 400 and the 
whole GUI felt like it was running in molasses. Is there some 'trick' to 
speeding it up?

'Samegnome' is disturbingly addictive.

Directories do not need version names, especially for enduser apps. 
'FooBar1.01-45A-intel-linux-2.0' is a *stupid* name for a directory. (Or a 
file, for that matter). Since the Macintosh, which also permits very long 
file names, is NOT afflicted with this sort of nonsense, I don't see why 
Linux has to be.

More rants as the situation warrents. BTW, how good is CodeWarrior as an 
IDE? I used it on the mac and loved it, and it's for sale cheap for Linux 
at my local CompUSA...recommendations/condemnations welcome.

------------------------------

From: Vladimir Florinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 3-d plotting
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 22:20:24 -0700

Mark Hovey wrote:
> 
> Does anybody know a program running under Linux/X that will plot a
> function of two variables f(x,y) and also print it out nicely, perhaps
> as postscript?  I have tried grapher-3d, but that doesn't print, and
> xplot, but xplot won't compile on my machine (RH6.0)--the compile fails
> with multiple errors.
> 
> Probably it would be best to send replies directly to me.
>             Thanks,
>               Mark Hovey
>               [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Try MeshTV (http://www.llnl.gov/bdiv/meshtv/). This requires a special file
format (API is included). However the results are well worth it. You can
interactively zoom, rotate, plot 2-D slices, many more things. The only thing I
don't have working is the OpenGL engine (there is apparently a bug in the code).
Oh, and you'll need Motif to compile the source.
-- 


Vladimir

------------------------------

From: Nick Danger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: I WANT TO DITCH WINDOZE BUT I CANT!!!
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 05:11:01 +0000

Azzy wrote:

>  * A good Java IDE (Visual Cafe Pro or VisualAge for Java

You can download what IBM calls a "technical preview" of
Visual Age for Java now:

http://www7.software.ibm.com/vad.nsf/

------------------------------


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