Linux-Misc Digest #154, Volume #27 Sun, 18 Feb 01 21:13:04 EST
Contents:
DMA error with kernel 2.4.1 ("Nicolas")
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else ("Mart van de Wege")
Mandrake 7.2 updates my 7.0 and I develop problems as a result (mike)
Re: Makefile troubles (Lee Webb)
Building Slackware Packages (David)
Re: Linux Dial Up Problem (Dances With Crows)
Re: cdrecord + 90/99 minutes CD-R's (Dances With Crows)
Building Slackware Packages (David)
video player ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: DMA error with kernel 2.4.1 (Dances With Crows)
Re: using rm to delete thru the tree (Dances With Crows)
Re: using rm to delete thru the tree ("Benjamin Good")
Re: using rm to delete thru the tree (Adrian Mariano)
EZCam II (USB) (Young4ert)
Re: compiled 2.4.1 and PPP doesn't work (Clive DaSilva)
Reformating / (Thaddeus L Olczyk)
Re: Turning off LCD ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: Makefile troubles ("Peter T. Breuer")
Logs telnetd & ftpd (Jeff Moore)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else ("Edward Rosten")
Re: using rm to delete thru the tree (Adrian Mariano)
Re: Size of LINUX (Hartmann Schaffer)
Samba Problems (Mark Penkower)
Kyocera FS-3800 unter Suse 7.1 ("Flo")
samba problems (Mark Penkower)
Samba Problems (Mark Penkower)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else (John Hasler)
Re: Size of LINUX (Jean-David Beyer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Nicolas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: DMA error with kernel 2.4.1
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:46:22 +0100
When my hard drive is heavily used, I keep getting the error:
hda: timeout waiting for DMA
ide_dmaproc: chipset supported ide_dma_timeout func only: 14
hda: irq timeout: status 0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
Any idea ?
Tks
Nicolas P
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:42:54 +0100
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> At the time of the deregulation, we had a healthy surplus of
> electric power. It's now a deficit, and PG&E is bleeding
> badly.
>
> In other words, the goverment botched the deregulation by
> imposing a price ceiling.
>
> At least, that's my understanding of the situation. TURN and
> other such groups may see things quite differently. :-)
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
Don't know much about the California situation, but doesn't your
statement imply that the state government was running things
just fine *before* they deregulated?
Inquiring minds want to know, because our government (in the
Netherlands) is reassessing deregulation in the light of the
California energy crisis.
Mart
--
Happily running Debian, posting with Pan
------------------------------
From: mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mandrake 7.2 updates my 7.0 and I develop problems as a result
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:52:01 -0500
Hi,
I tried updating my Mandrake 7.0 with 7.2 and now my networking
function does not work. I checked the routing table and there
are no entries. I tried to put some in and route would not take the
entries. It tells me my eth0 device does not exist, yet when I do
ifconfig eth0, I get info that indicates that eth0 does exist.
Also on my KDE desktop, I can't get rid of the background matrix
effect.
I just want a plain colored background. The system will not accept
a solid background.
The time indicator in the lower right corner disappeared.
When I minimize a running program window like Netscape or
and xterm, I cannot restore it. There are no restore launch buttons
on the task bar. If I do ps aux, I see that they are still running.
All in all I am not a happy camper. If I don't find any solutions,
I am willing to try a fresh install.
Any ideas will be much appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Webb)
Subject: Re: Makefile troubles
Date: 19 Feb 2001 00:01:16 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:51:45 -0500, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>I am trying to write my very first Makefile and it is of course not
>working. I get the message
>
>Makefile:17: *** missing separator. Stop.
>
>What in the world does this mean?
>
You *are* using tabs and not spaces? Aren't you?
That's usually the reason for the "missing separator" message.
Lee.
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Building Slackware Packages
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:03:36 GMT
Hi All,
I have just switched one of my systems from redhat back to slackware
(Yes That's right back to slackware) and I'm updating packages on it. It
has been a couple of years since I used Slackware and don't remember how
to include the description of the package so that when using the
Slackware setup tool it will show the description for the package?
Right now it just shows the package like this.
===================
Package Name: ==>control<==
Size: Compressed: xxx K uncompressed: xxx K
===============
But I want it to show something like this, from the original package.
================
Package Name: ==>control<==
control-center-1.2.2
The GNOME control center. Control-center is a configuration tool for
easily setting up your GNOME environment. GNOME is the GNU Network
Object Model Environment. That's a fancy name, but really GNOME is a
nice GUI desktop environment. It's a powerful, easy to configure
environment which helps to make your computer easy to use.
Size: Compressed xxx K uncompressed: xxx K
==================
Any one know what I need to add to my script so that the the package and
description are included with the package?
Thanks.
David
--
Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
Completed more W/U's than 99.072% of seti users. +/- 0.01%
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux.suse,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Linux Dial Up Problem
Date: 19 Feb 2001 00:22:18 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:20:00 -0000, David Ayliffe staggered into the
Black Sun and said:
>I have recently set up Suse Linux 6 on a seperate HD, I am having
>problems setting up dial-up connections i have used KPPP to define two
>dial up connections I have selected the correct port, speed (115200),
>and variable settings.
Would that be 6.0, or 6.4, or what? Things might be easier if you have
a later version, but it's easy to fix.
>All seems to go well the modem initialises and then dials like my modem
>does in windows. However once I have got the modem icon in the corner
>I fire up netscape i cannot get any web pages also I cannot ping
>anything it says network unrouteable/untraceable
Method 1:
Enable the "usepeerDNS" option. It's somewhere within kppp.
Setup->Accounts->Edit Account->DNS and choose "automatic". This option
may not be present on the kppp you have; all I have atm is the one that
comes with KDE2.
Method 2:
Edit /etc/resolv.conf by hand, and make it look something like the
following. You can actually use these lines as written, but if you
follow the directions, things will be faster.
search
# search domain, you can leave this blank
nameserver 141.211.125.17
# IP address of primary nameserver
nameserver 141.211.144.17
# IP address of secondary nameserver
Your ISP should provide you with this info, or you can find it out
pretty easily by making a connection in 'Doze, pulling up a command
line, and entering "ipconfig". HTH,
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Workin' in a code mine, hittin' Ctrl-Alt
http://www.brainbench.com / Workin' in a code mine, whoops!
=============================/ I hit a seg fault....
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: cdrecord + 90/99 minutes CD-R's
Date: 19 Feb 2001 00:22:19 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:49:38 +0100, Matthias Medger staggered into the
Black Sun and said:
>How can I burn CD-Rs which are 90 or 99 minutes long with cdrecord and
>mkisofs? Which options should I use. I tried "-ignsize", but it doesn't
>work.
>
>My CD burner (a MITSUMI 4804TE) is able to handle such CD-R's.
The Red Book specified that a CD can contain 74 minutes' worth of audio
data. Thanks to engineering overcoverage, you can squeeze 80 minutes'
worth of data onto a normal-sized CD and *most* players will be able to
access all the data. The standard CD is 60mm in radius, with the live
data area taking up the outer (60 - (hole + gap) ) or ~37mm. Doing the
(admittedly fuzzy, I don't have a micrometer) math on this results in a
live data area of 9643 mm^2 for 80 minutes. 1 minute = 120.5 mm^2.
Then do some more math, and you find that a 99-minute CD would have to
be ~65mm in radius. A CD that size will not fit into a standard CD
holder. So, I think it unlikely that 99-minute CDs exist.
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Workin' in a code mine, hittin' Ctrl-Alt
http://www.brainbench.com / Workin' in a code mine, whoops!
=============================/ I hit a seg fault....
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Building Slackware Packages
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:33:53 GMT
Hi All,
Sorry if this is a double posting but I don't find my other one.
I have just switched one of my systems from redhat back to slackware
(Yes That's right back to slackware) and I'm updating packages on it. It
has been a couple of years since I used Slackware and don't remember how
to include the description of the package so that when using the
Slackware setup tool it will show the description for the package?
Right now it just shows the package like this.
===================
Package Name: ==>control<==
Size: Compressed: xxx K uncompressed: xxx K
===============
But I want it to show something like this, from the original package.
================
Package Name: ==>control<==
control-center-1.2.2
The GNOME control center. Control-center is a configuration tool for
easily setting up your GNOME environment. GNOME is the GNU Network
Object Model Environment. That's a fancy name, but really GNOME is a
nice GUI desktop environment. It's a powerful, easy to configure
environment which helps to make your computer easy to use.
Size: Compressed xxx K uncompressed: xxx K
==================
Any one know what I need to add to my script so that the the package and
description are included with the package?
Thanks.
David
--
Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
Completed more W/U's than 99.072% of seti users. +/- 0.01%
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: video player
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:41:07 -0800
Where can I find a good video player for Linux?
I'm running Red Hat 6.2 / KDE 2.2.
--
cedric
Linux powered
Do not sell, share or otherwise
distribute e-mail address.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: DMA error with kernel 2.4.1
Date: 19 Feb 2001 00:46:34 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:46:22 +0100, Nicolas staggered into the Black Sun
and said:
>When my hard drive is heavily used, I keep getting the error:
>
>hda: timeout waiting for DMA
>ide_dmaproc: chipset supported ide_dma_timeout func only: 14
>hda: irq timeout: status 0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
>
>Any idea ?
Check Kernel Traffic and you'll find that the maintainers are tracking
down problems with the DMA subsystems in 2.4.x with various chipsets.
Does this cause data corruption, bring the system to a screeching halt
for >1 second, or lock the machine totally? If so, it might be worth
your while to send in a bug report. If not, you can either grin, bear
it, and hope things are fixed in 2.4.2, or downgrade.
(currently using 2.2.18 because of problems with 2.4.x and VIA KT133
chipsets. Argh.)
Kernel Traffic: http://kt.linuxcare.com/kernel-traffic/latest.epl
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Workin' in a code mine, hittin' Ctrl-Alt
http://www.brainbench.com / Workin' in a code mine, whoops!
=============================/ I hit a seg fault....
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: using rm to delete thru the tree
Date: 19 Feb 2001 00:46:35 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:26:48 -0500, Sudhakar R. staggered into the Black
Sun and said:
>could someone please tell me how to go about deleting all files that match
>the pattern *.*~ in every directory including sub-directories, sub-sub
>directories and so on in one single sweep.
man find.
find . -name \*.\*~ -exec rm -f {} \;
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Workin' in a code mine, hittin' Ctrl-Alt
http://www.brainbench.com / Workin' in a code mine, whoops!
=============================/ I hit a seg fault....
------------------------------
From: "Benjamin Good" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: using rm to delete thru the tree
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:48:31 GMT
rm -r is recursive delete. Be careful using it. See man rm.
"Sudhakar R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> hi,
>
> could someone please tell me how to go about deleting all files that match
> the pattern *.*~ in every directory including sub-directories, sub-sub
> directories and so on in one single sweep.
>
> thanx in advance
> -sud
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adrian Mariano)
Subject: Re: using rm to delete thru the tree
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:40:57 GMT
"Sudhakar R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>could someone please tell me how to go about deleting all files that match
>the pattern *.*~ in every directory including sub-directories, sub-sub
>directories and so on in one single sweep.
You cannot do this with the rm command alone. You can do it using the
find command. I believe
find . -name '*~' -exec rm {} \;
will do the trick. (I tested this with "echo" instead of "rm".) I
also find it a little odd that you want to preserve files with no '.'
in the name, so my version blows them away also.
------------------------------
From: Young4ert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EZCam II (USB)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:46:06 GMT
Hi,
I just got the EZCam II (USB) from the local CompUSA (free after the
rebates) and tested on the Linux kernel-2.4.1 to novail. Has anyone had
ever try this camera? I checked the http://webcam.sourceforge.com and it
has a CPiA driver that claimed to support this type of camera. I believe
this CPiA driver is already incorporated as part of the latest Linux 2.4.1
kernel distro. Am I missing something?
TIA.
------------------------------
From: Clive DaSilva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: compiled 2.4.1 and PPP doesn't work
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:05:15 -0500
Hi Rob
with kernel 2.4.1, you need ppp-2.4.0. do a search on the net for it,
or perhaps try freshmeat.net
Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hey !
>
>after compiling 2.4.1, when i run wvdial 1.41 to connect to my ISP i get
>disconnected
>after the modem CONNECT signal.
>
>wvdial says it's a pppd error code = 1
>
>and i can find in /var/log/messages the following error:
>
>Feb 17 21:57:16 darkstar pppd[503]: ioctl(PPPIOCGFLAGS): Invalid
>argument
>
>i don't know at all what does this mean.
>
>attached is my /usr/src/linux/.config file if you wanna look.
>
>thanks for your help!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thaddeus L Olczyk)
Subject: Reformating /
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:08:30 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am ( at present ) compiling the 2.4.1 kernel with jfs support built
in. After I build the kernel I would like to reformat all my
filesystems into jfs (except /boot )
The problem is with a couple of filesystems ( in particular / ) which
I cannot unmount. Can anyone suggest a way of modifying the /
partition?
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Turning off LCD
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:46:58 +0100
Ester Ahoodem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply,
> Then apm -S command on my machine turns the backlight off but unfortunately
> it also puts the machine into standby which seems to halt the processor and
> thus the mp3s stop playing.
> I'm hoping for a way to turn the backlight off without stopping the
Try apm -s.
Peter
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Makefile troubles
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:48:11 +0100
Robert Schweikert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am trying to write my very first Makefile and it is of course not
> working. I get the message
> Makefile:17: *** missing separator. Stop.
> What in the world does this mean?
spaces instead of tabs. Tabs are the separator between dependency
declaration and actions.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Jeff Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: redhat.general,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Logs telnetd & ftpd
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:29:08 -0600
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am trying to find the connection logs for telnetd and ftpd. I have
read the man for syslog, telnetd, and ftpd and I have not seen any
reference to the logs. Are there such logs, or do I have to write some
script for this?
I am using RedHat Linux 7.0 with a static IP and I keep getting ftpd:
FTP session closed, and telnetd: ttloop: read: Connection reset by
peer, in my syslog, but I have found no way to trace the logins. I am
debugging the server now and I am interested to know if some client on
my lan is doing this somehow, or if someone from the internet is
responsible. I am rotating and expiring my accounts and passwords, so I
do not think I have any security risk, but I would like to be able to
trace this syslog entry.
I have two clients on my lan that are running Napster that have caused
problems for my server in the past, but I think I have gotten all the
bugs worked out with it. I am also running Yahoo Messenger, Aol,
Netscape AIM, and Dialpad on my lan with two clients, but I cannot tell
if they are the cause.
Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Jeffrey Moore
--
Jeffrey Moore, Muhammad Mo. Jaffry
Director General
DCI, Dynamic Consultants International
Birmingham Alabama USA 35215
Islamabad Rawalpindi Pakistan
Tel: 001-205-853-2183
[EMAIL PROTECTED] company
[EMAIL PROTECTED] home
JeffAlabam Yahoo Messenger Chat
JefTrader AOL Instant Messenger and email
http://dcihq.ath.cx/ Web Server
Please use my PGP Public Key for any confidential information.
Get QuickTime for Windows and Mac, http://www.apple.com/
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==============4E4197E683D09381E09D15ED==
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:33:03 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "John Hasler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter writes:
>> OTOH, even in the cave, man was searching for a reason for his
>> existence. That, and art, is what separates us from the beasts in the
>> field.
>
> Show that "the beasts in the field" do not practice art
They do practice art. See my other post.
-Ed
> and ponder
> existence. Show that man "in the cave" was.
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adrian Mariano)
Subject: Re: using rm to delete thru the tree
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:20:26 GMT
>"Sudhakar R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>
>> could someone please tell me how to go about deleting all files that match
>> the pattern *.*~ in every directory including sub-directories, sub-sub
>> directories and so on in one single sweep.
>
"Benjamin Good" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>rm -r is recursive delete. Be careful using it. See man rm.
It's true that 'rm -r' is recursive delete but it will not do what was
asked. It will recursively delete entire directories (and all their
subdirectories). There is no way to get it to delete only certain
files from the subdirectories.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hartmann Schaffer)
Subject: Re: Size of LINUX
Date: 18 Feb 2001 20:38:23 -0500
In article <96oil1$rd0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Yvan Loranger wrote:
> ...
>Don't worry, computers were invented by mathematicians, not engineers;
Konrad Zuse was a civil engineer
> ...
hs
------------------------------
From: Mark Penkower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Samba Problems
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:39:11 GMT
I am having a weird Problem.
I made some changes to my smb.conf file. I then restarted samba. I had
problem logging in, so I ran the testparm program. Changes that I made
to the smb.conf -such as changing security from user to domain and
encrypt passwords from no to yes.
I even tried rebooting -but to no avail. What am doing wrong for the
changes to to kick in?
Thanks
Mark Penkower
------------------------------
From: "Flo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Kyocera FS-3800 unter Suse 7.1
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 02:41:57 +0100
hi have a problem with my printer. i tried the drivers delivered by suse,
but im not able to get my printer printing. if i try other drives it works
but the margins are not alright.
can anyone help?? please!
Flo
------------------------------
From: Mark Penkower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: samba problems
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:43:48 GMT
Regarding my last message - I meant to say that the changes are not
kicking in.
Mark
------------------------------
From: Mark Penkower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Samba Problems
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 02:05:08 GMT
I am having a weird Problem.
I made some changes to my smb.conf file. I then restarted samba. I had
problem logging in, so I ran the testparm program. Changes that I made
to the smb.conf -such as changing security from user to domain and
encrypt passwords from no to yes - were not reflected in the dump.
I even tried rebooting -but to no avail. What am doing wrong for the
changes to to not have kicked in?
Thanks
Mark Penkower
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:54:07 GMT
Mart van de Wege writes:
> Don't know much about the California situation, but doesn't your
> statement imply that the state government was running things just fine
> *before* they deregulated?
The "deregulation" was very selective. A cynical person might suspect that
things are going according to plan.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Size of LINUX
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:59:51 -0500
Rolie Baldock wrote:
>
> My friend summed up C in the following way:
> A language written by "smart arses" who stood back when they
> finished it and said aren't we clever we have compacted so many
> machine instructions into one line of C so as to make it
> unintelligible to any but C gurus.
I disagree with your friend. First of all, the C programming
language was designed by one person, Dennis Ritchie, not a group of
people. True, it was based on a dialect of BCPL, known as B.
Secondly, Dennis is not a "smart arse," nor is he arrogant as your
friend seems to believe. Furthermore, C is no more untelligible than
is FORTRAN (not my idea of a great language); both have
peculiarities related to the hardware for which they were originally
intended to compile, but none of those peculiarities harmed them,
and the features have been used even when the underlying hardware
did not directly support them.
> Compares with the Lawyers who write
> the law so that nobody but lawyers can fathom it. That is a far cry
> from the original intention of a high level language. It was supposed
> to be intelligible to engineers mathematicians and scientists in
> general. It is significant that there are still programmers using
> BASIC (VB) and even some using FORTRAN, so I'm told.
Well, you can read the work of John Backus who, with his team of 13
others, designed the FORTRAN programming system back in the mid
1950s. They wanted to know if it was possible to design a useful
higher level language that could be compiled to programs efficient
enough to run on the small machines of the day (in particular, the
IBM 704). Their goal was to design a language that made life easier
for engineers and some mathematicians (but only for numerical
calculations, not for symbolic computations such as W. Stanley
Brown's ALPAK and ALTRAN languages for symbolic computation). For
numeric computation, I greatly preferred ALGOL-60, which was
designed by mathematicians for mathematicians, and build on a
theoretical foundation first, with implementation concerns second
(the opposite of John Backus's concerns). Implementations, such as
the Illinois/ALCOR Algol-60 compiler for the IBM-704 series machines
by David Gries et. al., turned out to be extremely good compilers
and were very fast. We called it an instantaneous compiler (he did
not), because it could compile Algol-60 programs as fast as the
card-reader could read them in.
Dennis Ritchie's main goal, IIRC, was to design a language that made
it practical to write operating systems in general, and the UNIX
Operating System in particular, easy to write, and in a portable way
without sacrificing run-time efficiency. I think he succeeded very
well at that, and anyone who actually needs to write an operating
system should consider it carefully as an appropriate language
possibility. Personally, I prefer Bjarne Stroustrup's C++ language
for new work, and were I to write another operating system, I would
probably pick that instead. But I hope I never have to write another
one.
>
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:56:51 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark
> Bratcher) wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rolie Baldock wrote:
> >>Hello Folks,
> >>
> >>I am not specifically condemning LINUX as such. I am wondering if
> >>LINUX was written in assembly language by a COMPETENT assembly
> >>language programmer(the likes of which I have not seen for a long
> >>time) would it be a lot smaller and faster. Putting all ones faith in
> >>the author of the C compiler in my view is not good software
> >>engineering. It simply CANNOT be proved that the compiled code is the
> >>tightest and fastest that can be produced. My experience with high
> >>level language compilers is that they are ALWAYS inefficient. I write
> >>assembly language code for my PC and the .COM files are always VERY
> >>SMALL, amazingly so sometimes. "Get last disk" uses just 651 bytes!!
> >>Try that in C and see how many bytes it takes.
> >
> >Linux is virtually all in C. The benefit of this over assembly language
> >is that it is highly portable. Being well architected for this purpose
> >helps, too. :-) If it were in assembly language you may likely not
> >see Linux on as many different hardware platforms as you do today
> >(eg, x86, alpha, IBM mainframe, sparc, etc).
> >
> >There is some need to balance "smallest and fastest" with "modular,
> >maintainable, and portable". It's unfortunate that a lot of software
> >written today is neither of these.
> >
> >--
> >Mark Bratcher
> >To reply, remove both underscores (_) from my email name
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> >Escape from Microsoft's proprietary tentacles: use Linux!
>
> --Rolie Baldock. email: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 8:40pm up 21 days, 5:07, 4 users, load average: 2.16, 2.09,
1.97
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