> i thought it was thomas who made it to india - > probably brought his uke. > - bill Did Juerg Meili go with him????? RT
> > --- Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Alain, >> I appreciate your input and logical perspective. >> >> I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if >> there is any evidence - >> let alone convincing - that Jesus traveled to India >> >> Let me say firstly, that I read, write and speak >> to a small degree >> Tibetan. I've taught Tibetan at various Buddhist >> institutions in San >> Francisco and Santa Fe, NM. >> There is a Buddhist monastery in Laddak near the >> Kashmir valley in north >> India with the entire life of Christ written in >> Tibetan and integrated with >> the Buddhist teaching. In that monastery they claim >> to have Christ's >> remains,... remember the three wise men from the >> east? >> Also, in various places in India are paintings >> dating back to when >> Christ was alive with his name on them, he was known >> there to have studied >> in various monasteries, and the Buddhist considered >> Him a great >> Bodhisattva. I forget which one of Christ's direct >> disciples ( Mark ?)died >> in southern India after establishing one of the >> oldest still surviving sects >> of Christianity. Only decades after the death of >> Christ. Maybe Mathias >> knows. >> >>> There would be nothing >>> extraordinary in a cultural exchange of medical >> ideas >between Greece and >>> India, but it may be hard to decide who gave what >> to >whom. The 4 Greek >>> humors, associated with the 4 elements, don't seem >> to >match the three >>> listed below anyway. >> >> A small technicality, 3 or 4 humors, the urine >> analysis is consistent. >> This version is hard to swallow India's medical >> system predates any. >> >> >>> I am tempted to think that, while there is clear >> and >documented evidence >>> of Greek influence on Buddhist art and civilization >> in >Northern India, >>> very little went the other way, not because the >> Indians >were not >>> civilized, but because the Greek army got cut off >> from its >base and had >>> no choice but to be completely assimilated in India >> over >a couple of >>> centuries >> >> This is true, however the Greek influence in >> Buddhist images occurred >> well after the death of the Buddha. I have no >> problem with an exchange of >> cultures. This is my whole point. >> >>> In other words, it seems likely that European >>> monasteries, at least in the West, owed more to the >> old >Roman villas - >>> with their persistent, active connection to Rome, >> than to >India, Tibet, >> >> This is thinking within the box, with all due >> respect. This is western >> mans perspective isn't it? That monasteries evolved >> out of a material >> benefit, rather than spiritual benefit. >> To think that a culture ( India) that all of >> Europe and the rest of the >> world was seeking desperately to do trade with, from >> antiquity up to the >> time of Columbus, Had zero effect on middle east >> culture and Europe? >> >> Michael Thames >> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alain Veylit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Cc: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dr. >> Marion Ceruti" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LUTE-LIST" >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Jon Murphy" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:31 PM >> Subject: Re: LUTE-etymology >> >> >>> I am a bit lost in this thread: I don't know if >> there is any evidence - >>> let alone convincing - that Jesus travelled to >> India, but we do know >>> that the Greeks went there a few centuries earlier >> (at the time of >>> Aristotle) and even stayed quite a while, after >> the medical luminaries >>> of the time failed to save Alexander's life. There >> would be nothing >>> extraordinary in a cultural exchange of medical >> ideas between Greece and >>> India, but it may be hard to decide who gave what >> to whom. The 4 Greek >>> humors, associated with the 4 elements, don't seem >> to match the three >>> listed below anyway. >>> I am tempted to think that, while there is clear >> and documented evidence >>> of Greek influence on Buddhist art and >> civilisation in Northern India, >>> very little went the other way, not because the >> Indians were not >>> civilised, but because the Greek army got cut off >> from its base and had >>> no choice but to be completely assimilated in >> India over a couple of >>> centuries. >>> Besides, from the little I know about religion, it >> seems that >>> monasticism in Europe was a very late development >> (6th or 7th century >>> perhaps), with a definitely European rationale >> (i.e. barbarians of all >>> kinds wreaking havoc in all unprotected areas) and >> mode of organization >>> and hierarchy. In other words, it seems likely >> that European >>> monasteries, at least in the West, owed more to >> the old Roman villas - >>> with their persistent, active connection to Rome, >> than to India, Tibet, >>> or China. >>> From various pictorial and architectural >> evidence, it does not seem to >>> me that the lute penetrated Europe much before the >> 13th century, and by >>> that time it had already a long history in Arab >> countries. In fact, >>> isn't it in the 13th century that exchanges of all >> kinds flourished >>> between the Muslim and Christina worlds, via >> Spain, and the university >>> in Salamanca? >>> The period of a little more of a century before >> the Black Death, in my >>> opinion, is the one that truly deserves to be >> called the Renaissance: >>> strong population growth, deforestation on a huge >> scale, inventions like >>> the mill, the glass lens, architectural >> breakthroughs, establishment of >>> roads and international fairs, development of >> literature (Chrestien de >>> Troyes and Dante), adoption of Arab science in >> astrology and algebra, >>> and probably importation of the oud and the >> plague, thanks to increased >>> contact with the East. >>> Now, if someone could actually document the >> history of the oud, that >>> would be interesting to me. >>> Alain >>> >>> Michael Thames wrote: >>> >>>>> There where >>>>> well establish trade routes from India to the >> middle east. There is >> some >>>>> pretty convincing evidence that Christ traveled >> to India >at that time, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> >>>>> That "Gospel Vindaloo theory" doesn't hold >> lassi, I'm >afraid..... >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Roman, another puzzle for you to ponder in your >> dismissal of eastern >>>> influence on the west. The Chinese and Indians >> have what is considered >> the >>>> oldest system of medicine known to man. Actually >> it is considered to be >> of >>>> Indian origin. It is based on the principles of >> the three humors ( heat, >> > === message truncated === > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
