Martyn, Eugene,
This latest Piccinini remark, reminds me of an earlier topic,
Theorbo + Nails. While looking for Piccinini texts for Jim Abraham, I
found the introduction to his lute tablatures, translated into French.
It looks very much like Piccinini's instruction for the use of nails
on the first three fingers, is similar to what you are describing,
Martyn, below, about Weiss, albeit, at a much earlier date. Although,
the text is open to interpretation, I think. The instructions seem to
be for "liuto , et di chitarrone", without distinction. I won't
translate, I think the text is quite easy to follow:
"Les trois autres doigts – index, majeur,
annulaire- qui doivent avoir assurément des
ongles assez long pour qu’ils dépassent la
pulpe mais pas plus, et taillés en ovale c’est-àdire
plus longs en leur milieu, doivent
s’utiliser ainsi : lorsqu’on jouera un accord,
ou lorsqu’on pincera une seule corde, on
jouera avec l’extrémité charnue du doigt, en la
dirigeant vers la table avec, on fera en sorte
que l’ongle laisse échapper les deux cordes en
même temps, lesquelles résonnant ensemble,
produiront une très belle harmonie." (1623)
Traductions et notes par : Joël Dugot et Marco Horvat
luthlibrairie.free.fr/?download=Piccinini-instructions.pdf
I apologize if this has often been mentioned, and I did not notice it.
Regards
Anthony
Le 12 déc. 07 à 14:55, Martyn Hodgson a écrit :
From what Weiss writes (and thanks for the quote Mathias - is it
complete?), I infer that he's saying he is obliged to use nails on
the theorbo to produce the volume/edge required but, because he
doesn't mention doing so on the lute, he didn't on the lute.
Incidentally. I suspect (again pure speculation of course) that
he's not saying his theorbo nails were like those found with, say,
modern flameco players (or Dalla Casa's), but that there was
sufficient to provide solid support to the very tip of the finger.
In practice if I'm doing a concert with large band and/or many
voices, I find a week's growth can give sufficient slight extra
length to provide such support - but I also find I need a few days
to adjust and thus try and avoid theorbo and lute in such concerts
(but the guitar's OK............).
MH
Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Whether Stephen Stubbs or anyone else gets a good sound with
nails on a
baroque lute is neither here nor there. The question is whether
Weiss used
nails, and I maintain that the comments he made are inconclusive.
Rob
www.rmguitar.info
-----Original Message-----
From: "Mathias Rösel" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 December 2007 11:57
To: 'lute list'
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings
"Rob" schrieb:
Mathias, I don't think we can definitely conclude from his statement
no, of course, not def.
that
Weiss himself used nails. He might have implied it was common
practice,
but
he doesn't say for sure that he used nails.
As for the theorbo that is probable, though, IMHO. He says it's
ordinairement played that way, but doesn't remark "but I refrain from
that horrible abuse" or the like.
Certainly he was employed as a
continuo player,
And he was known so as a marvelous accompagnist
but clearly was also regarded as a special case,
Regarding the theorbo, I'm not aware of another specialty besides his
being fabulous. No mentioning of no-nails.
one whose
solo playing was highly valued as well. If he describes nail
playing as
'rude',
He doesn't. The quote bears on the sound of the theorbo as resulting
from ordinarily using nails. He says if you come close the sound is
coarse and rude because it's ordinairement played with nails. That is
easily imaginable, I should add. Theorbo players in an orchestra who
aren't heard will soon loose their posts.
I doubt if he would have enjoyed playing the lute so much.
You can use nails even on a baroque lute. To name just one player who
keeps long nails because his main business is continuo playing in
ensembles and orchestras but who nevertheless made very good solo
recordings (Kellner, Saint Luc, Golden Age etc) is Stephen Stubbs.
--
Mathias
-----Original Message-----
From: "Mathias Rösel" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 December 2007 11:09
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: LGS-Europe; lute list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings
"Martyn Hodgson" schrieb:
Weiss does mention that playing with nails is acceptable on the
theorbo
but not on the lute (I don't have the exact quote to hand)
In his letter to Mattheson he said that the theorbo yielded a
somewhat
rude sound as it was ordinairement (usually, ordinarily) played with
nails. From which we may conclude that Weiss had nails long enough to
play the theorbo since that was one of his duties at court. Which
makes
me wonder as for his playing the lute...
Mathias
LGS-Europe wrote:
Perhaps OT on the lute-list either way, but I mentioned Sor and
Giuliani,
not baroque guitar music. Neither did I write one cannot play one
kind
of
music with or without nails, just that you may notice the
differences.
Well it's simply because of your pre-conditioned approach to their
music.
You know (or you believe you know) that Sor wasn't using nails
(i.e.
because
he or somebody else wrote about this or whatever).
Did Piccinini, Castaldi, Robert de Visee, Weiss etc etc use
nails or
no
nails? Can you spot that through their music? I very much doubt you
can.
I'm sure I cannot. I mentioned Sor and Giuliani, not theorbo music.
David
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