I know that some top lute makers (and by 'top' I really do mean names
that cause avaricious salivation when they are uttered in the company
of lutenists) use a number of different glues for different joints in
an instrument - notably aliphatic resin (Titebond), but also hide glue
for parts that may need to be separated for future repairs.
By the way, something I didn't find out until quite recently; hide glue
dissolves very readily in alcohol - which could have its uses,
especially for cleaning off residues. Piano technicians use that
method of separating joints routinely, though of course it is likely to
damage a polished surface it the alcohol gets onto it.
Bill
From: Garry Warber <garrywar...@hughes.net>
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2011, 12:31
Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?
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But Sterling... I'm (or was) a luthier... I used hide glue for
years, becoming an alchemist with the stuff adding nitrogen fertilizer
and such to alter gel-times, diluting for strength, etc... I found
epoxy (through boatbuilding) to be just as "reversible" with heat, and
a lot nicer than hide glue to work with, providing you remembered it
was a toxic nightmare and work clean... It works well. So do the
other aliphatic resin glues, where appropriate. You should try gluing
lute ribs with hide... Or even better, coating the join on the top/rib
with hide glue then ironing it on. Epoxy will appeal after you do just
one, I think...
Garry
From: sterling price
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:30 AM
To: Garry Warber ; [1]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: long strings?
As any good luthier will tell you today, hide glue is still superior to
modern glue for several reasons.
--Sterling
Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?
Or, As I enjoy assuming, the "old ones" used the best they had, and if
they'd had epoxy glue and nylon strings that's what they'd have
used... :-)
Things can get endlessly circular in these beliefs. I just like how
well
the early music is written! The stuff plays itself without a lot of
"interpretive gimmicks." I'm all for re-creating their sound as close
as we
can, for others. For myself, a totally modern lute is just ducky...
:-)
Garry
-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Turovsky
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:27 AM
To: Martyn Hodgson ; [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; andy butler
Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?
There is a great likelihood that "our" gut is rather acoustically
different
from "their".
Lets not forget to use the honest modifier "approximation of".
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martyn Hodgson" <[3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "andy butler"
<[5]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:01 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?
>
> The superiority of gut is chiefly that it was the material used by
the
> Old Ones. If we have any pretensions to attempting to reproduce the
> sounds these early lutenist composers expected and their auditors
> heard, it is necessary to employ the same string materials.
>
> MH
> --- On Tue, 30/8/11, andy butler <[6]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: andy butler <[7]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?
> To: [8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Date: Tuesday, 30 August, 2011, 9:27
>
> David van Ooijen wrote:
> > The basses are shortish, so a higher tuning would be better,
> actually.
> > If the instrument is tuned to g', gut diapassons are possible (if
> cost
> > is an issue use fret gut, it really is so much better than any of
the
> > modern materials), otherwise carbon or metal-wounds seem to be the
> > best option.
> Beginner's questions.
> Is the superiority of gut down to the shorter sustain time
> that someone mentioned earlier?
> Is string damping really unpopular? (unnecessary?)
> andy
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
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charset="utf-8"
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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>But Sterling... I'm (or was) a luthier... <IMG
style="BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none;
BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none"
class="wlEmoticon wlEmoticon-smile" alt=Smile
src="cid:C406196480C44732A36F7147D25ECD70@GarryPC"> I used hide
glue for
years, becoming an alchemist with the stuff adding nitrogen fertilizer
and such
to alter gel-times, diluting for strength, etc... I found epoxy
(through
boatbuilding) to be just as "reversible" with heat, and a lot nicer
than hide
glue to work with, providing you remembered it was a toxic nightmare
and work
clean... <IMG
style="BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none;
BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none"
class="wlEmoticon wlEmoticon-smile" alt=Smile
src="cid:C406196480C44732A36F7147D25ECD70@GarryPC"> It works
well.
So do the other aliphatic resin glues, where appropriate. You
should try
gluing lute ribs with hide... Or even better, coating the join on
the
top/rib with hide glue then ironing it on. Epoxy will appeal
after you do
just one, I think...</DIV>
<DIV>Garry </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION:
none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=[11]spiffys84...@yahoo.com
href="mailto:[12]spiffys84...@yahoo.com";>sterling price</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:30 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[13]garrywar...@hughes.net
href="mailto:[14]garrywar...@hughes.net";>Garry Warber</A> ; <A
title=[15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
href="mailto:[16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";>[17]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [LUTE] Re: long strings?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION:
none">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york,
times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">As any good luthier will tell you today, hide
glue is
still superior to modern glue for several
reasons.</SPAN></B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"></SPAN></B></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">--Sterling<VAR
id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"></SPAN></B></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"></SPAN></B></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [LUTE] Re: long
strings?<BR></FONT><BR>Or, As I enjoy assuming, the "old ones" used the
best
they had, and if <BR>they'd had epoxy glue and nylon strings that's
what they'd
have used... :-) <BR>Things can get endlessly circular in these
beliefs. I just like how well <BR>the early music is
written! The
stuff plays itself without a lot of <BR>"interpretive gimmicks."
I'm all
for re-creating their sound as close as we <BR>can, for others.
For
myself, a totally modern lute is just ducky...
:-)<BR>Garry<BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Roman
Turovsky<BR>Sent:
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:27 AM<BR>To: Martyn Hodgson ; <A
href="mailto:[18]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";
ymailto="mailto:[19]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";>[20]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu</A
> ; andy
butler<BR>Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?<BR><BR>There is a great
likelihood
that "our" gut is rather acoustically different<BR>from
"their".<BR>Lets not
forget to use the honest modifier "approximation
of".<BR>RT<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----
Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Martyn Hodgson" <<A
href="mailto:[21]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk";
ymailto="mailto:[22]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk";>[23]hodgsonmartyn@yahoo.
co.uk</A>><BR>To:
<<A href="mailto:[24]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";
ymailto="mailto:[25]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";>[26]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu</A
>>; "andy
butler" <<A href="mailto:[27]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk";
ymailto="mailto:[28]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk";>[29]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk<
/A>><BR>Sent:
Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:01 AM<BR>Subject: [LUTE] Re: long
strings?<BR><BR><BR>><BR>> The superiority of gut is
chiefly that it
was the material used by the<BR>> Old Ones. If we have any
pretensions
to attempting to reproduce the<BR>> sounds these early
lutenist
composers expected and their auditors<BR>> heard, it is
necessary to
employ the same string materials.<BR>><BR>>
MH<BR>> --- On
Tue, 30/8/11, andy butler <<A
href="mailto:[30]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk";
ymailto="mailto:[31]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk";>[32]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk<
/A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> From: andy butler <<A
href="mailto:[33]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk";
ymailto="mailto:[34]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk";>[35]akbut...@tiscali.co.uk<
/A>><BR>>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: long strings?<BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:[36]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";
ymailto="mailto:[37]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu";>[38]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu</A
><BR>>
Date: Tuesday, 30 August, 2011, 9:27<BR>><BR>> David van
Ooijen
wrote:<BR>> > The basses are shortish, so a higher tuning
would be
better,<BR>> actually.<BR>> > If the instrument is
tuned to
g', gut diapassons are possible (if<BR>> cost<BR>>
> is an
issue use fret gut, it really is so much better than any of
the<BR>>
> modern materials), otherwise carbon or metal-wounds seem to be
the<BR>> > best option.<BR>> Beginner's
questions.<BR>> Is the superiority of gut down to the shorter
sustain
time<BR>> that someone mentioned earlier?<BR>> Is
string
damping really unpopular? (unnecessary?)<BR>>
andy<BR>> To get
on or off this list see list information at<BR>> [1]<A
href="[39]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html";
target=_blank>[40]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
l</A><BR>><BR>>
--<BR>><BR>> References<BR>><BR>> 1. <A
href="[41]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html";
target=_blank>[42]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
l</A><BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
</BODY></HTML>
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--
--
References
1. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
6. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
7. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. mailto:spiffys84...@yahoo.com
12. mailto:spiffys84...@yahoo.com
13. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net
14. mailto:garrywar...@hughes.net
15. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
16. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
17. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
18. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
19. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
20. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
21. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
22. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
23. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
24. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
25. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
26. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
27. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
28. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
29. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
30. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
31. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
32. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
33. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
34. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
35. mailto:akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
36. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
37. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
38. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
39. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
40. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
41. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
42. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
