On 21/01/2013 12:41, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear G Abramovic,
I'd love to read what you wrote but all I got was this below! Is it
Wayne's system or what?
regards
Martyn Hodgson
There maybe a more straightforward way than this to deal Ariel's email
(which has html formatting) but here is a very quick way (in Windows)
Copy it (Ctrl-A, then Ctrl-C) then open Notepad (under Accessories in
All Programs) and the copy the entire contents (Ctrl-V). Don't copy it
into Microsoft Word.
Now save this anything at all BUT with dot html at the end: e.g.:
Ariel.html. Then close it, click on it and it will open in your browser.
(to repeat: COPY the email. PASTE it into Notepad. SAVE it as an .html
file. Close it. Click on it and it will open)
All Ariel wrote was:
"Covarrubias? I think that was the source, I might be wrong.
A non musical one, btw. "
And the rest of it was Martin's email
Stuart
--- On Mon, 21/1/13, G_abramovic <g_abramo...@hotmail.com> wrote: From:
G_abramovic <g_abramo...@hotmail.com> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vihuela
stringing - was 6c (lute) stringing? To: "Martin Shepherd"
<mar...@luteshop.co.uk>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 21 January,
2013, 12:13 <html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body>Covarrubias? I
think that was the source, I might be wrong. <div> A non
musical one, btw. <br><br><br><font size="2">Enviado de Samsung
Mobile</font> </div><br><br><br>Martin Shepherd
<[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> escribie',:<br><br><br>Dear Martyn and
all,<br><br>I think the notion that the vihuela was strung in unisons is
based on a <br>source (which one, anyone?) which contrasts the vihuela
with the <br>"Flemish vihuela" i.e. the lute. Can someone help
with the reference?<br><br>As far as I know there is no documentary
evidence on the unison/octave <br>issue except that Piasdor's tuning
instructions imply a unison 4th <br>course (but say nothing about the
other courses).<br><br>I think it is wrong to assume that playing a
string with the finger <br>rather than the thumb will emphasize one or
other octave - it's all a <br>matter of technique.<br><br>All the!
best,<br><br>Martin<br><br>On 21/01/2013 10:44, Martyn Hodgson
wrote:<br>> Dear
Martin,<br>><br>> You may recall that
quite some years ago it was generally accepted
that<br>> the vihuela (but not the viola) was
strung in unison - I believe this<br>> was a
misreading of an early source and was explained through the
great<br>> wealth of Spain in the periof
whereby such expensive strings could be<br>>
generally afforded.<br>><br>> We seem to
have moved on from this to at least generally allowing
an<br>> octave on the 6th course of the
vihuela. Do we have any early vihuela<br>>
source which describes octaves (or unisons) on the 5tn and
4th<br>> courses? One of the practical
difficulties might be the ! occasional<br>>
contemporary use of! playing passages on the 5th course with
an<br>> accompanying bass on the 6th
course: in these circumstances it
is<br>> tricky to avoid the finger plucked
5th course upper octave<br>> dominating if
one is used - or perhaps this was one of the charms
of<br>> the instrument ( a bit like
re-entrant tuning on the later 5 course<br>>
guitar)?......... - or when two courses were to be
plucked<br>> simultaneously, is one expected
to use the same thumb stroke to cover<br>>
the two courses?....<br>><br>>
regards,<br>><br>>
Martyn<br>><br>> PS Can't get out
more - the snow's too deep over the moor
tops.....<br>> --- On Sun, 20/1/13, Martin
Shepherd <martin@! luteshop.co.uk>
wrote:<br>><br>> From: Martin
Shepherd
<[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk><br>> &
nbsp; Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c
stringing?<br>> To:
[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu<br>>
Date: Sunday, 20 January, 2013,
19:52<br>><br>> Hi
All,<br>> I agree with Sam on three points:
I've never found it "necessary" to<br>> have
an octave on the 4th course, it's difficult to get a unison 5th
to<br>> work well (in gut), and unison 6th
I've never liked. The only person<br>>
to mention unison 6th is Dowland in 1610, and he's talking about his
9c<br>> lute. No one else seems to have
done it - it seems to have been usual<br>>
for all kinds of baroque! lutes to have octaves starting at the
6th<br>> &nb! sp; (though Mace might be a
counterexample).<br>> As far as 6c lute is
concerned, I think there's plenty of room
for<br>> conjecture. Early tablatures
(e.g. Spinacino) have plenty of internal<br>>
evidence for octaves on courses 4-6. Unison stringing of more
courses<br>> is said to have been introduced
by Fabritio Dentice, who died c.1600 -<br>>
we might therefore suspect that particularly in Italian music of
the<br>> second half of the 16th C, unisons
may have been more widely used.<br>> Octaves
seem to have persisted longer in England than anywhere
else<br>> (Dowland says as much) and there is
internal evidence in the music of<br>>
Cutting, Johnson, Holborne etc which seems to confirm
this.<br>> ! Whether the octave "sticks out"
is another matter - it's a lot to do<br>>
with strings and even more to do with technique. For instance, all
my<br>> Francesco recordings were done with
octaves on courses 4-6, but I don't<br>>
think you would always know from listening. The music is
mostly<br>> written as though the octaves
were not there, and the main objective
is<br>> to realise the counterpoint
effectively.<br>> Best
wishes,<br>>
Martin<br>> On 20/01/2013 18:01, Sam Chapman
wrote:<br>> > Dear
Bill,<br>>
><br>> > I generally make these kind of
decisions depending on what kind of<br>> >
strings I have available and what sounds best! on my
lutes.<br>> > Since I play very li! ttle
early 16th-century repertoire I never use
an<br>> > octave on the 4th course:
whatever string I use for the 4th
course,<br>> > I've never felt that the
sound is so dull that it needs a high
octave<br>> > to brighten it. Like you, I
think it would get in the way in much<br>>
> repertoire (though I know that there is probably some earlier
music<br>> > which requires the octave 4th
course to make sense of certain<br>> >
contrapuntal figures).<br>> > I've found
that I can use unison stringing effectively on the
5th<br>> > course only with the very
best-quality pure gut strings. If the<br>>
course<br>> > sounds dull I would use an
octave on it, whatever the repertoire.<br>> !
> I've never been satisfied with unison stringing on the 6th
course.<br>> > Even with modern wound
strings, I've found that they tend to
clash<br>> > together (though I'm sure
there are some types of historical wound<br>>
> strings which work better). So, I always use an octave on the
6th<br>> > course, simply because the
course sounds better like that and is<br>>
> easier to control. I imagine that those historical writers who
talk<br>> > about using unisons on the 6th
course (and below) must have had<br>>
access<br>> > to better strings than I've
been able to get hold of!<br>>
><br>> > All the
best,<br>> ><br>> &nbs!
p; > Sam<br>> ><br>> &nb!
sp; ><br>>
><br>>
><br>> > On 20 January 2013 16:21,
William Samson
<[1][4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk><br>>
wrote:<br>> >>
Dear Collective Wisdom,<br>>
>><br>>
>> I believe that 6c lutes are often
strung with octaves on the<br>> 6th,
5th<br>> >> and
4th courses.<br>>
>><br>>
>> Would you use that stringing for all
parts of the lute<br>> repertoire
that<br>> >>
needs only six courses, or would other arrangements
be<br>> ap! propriate
for<br>> >>
parts of the repertoire?<br>>
>><br>>
>> I'm particularly fond of the 6c English
music that is found in<br>>
many<br>> >>
mid-late 16th century sources. Playing with an octave on
the<br>> 4th<br>>
>> sounds intrusive to my ear, but maybe I
need to train my ear to<br>>
accept<br>> >>
it?<br>>
>><br>>
>> Bill<br>>
>><br>>
>> --<br>>
>><br>> ! ;
>><br>> >> T! o get on or off
this list see list information at<br>>
>>
[2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<br>>&nb
sp; ><br>>
><br>><br>> --<br>><br>>
References<br>><br>> 1.
[6]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk<
br>> 2.
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<br>><br><b
r><br><br></body> -- References 1.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mar...@luteshop.co.uk 2.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 5.
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6.
http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 7.
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off
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