Makes me think of the Sarabande de Gautier de Lyon, which would be
neither a Saraband (Chaconne in A), nor by Gauthier (according to Joel
Dugot)', not at all in his style?
Very much looking forward to hearing your CD of Vieil-ton pieces, when
you finally record it, and hopefully to read the results of your
stylistic research.
I suppose pieces occurring in later manuscripts (particularly
D-minor ones) even if they are attributed could be later
interpretations (according to later tastes), by a later lutenist of a
well-known piece, so possibly very far from the original (even with
change of tuning).
Then a name in a tittle, might only mean after the style of, or
possibly in memory of; while the perhaps "de" as in "tombeau de X"
could mean "by X", or "for X".
Regards
Anthony
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Le vendredi, février 10, 2017, 6:24 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier
<jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> a écrit :
I agree with Ronabout mis-attributions of "Gautier" pieces to Jacques
or Ennemond.
I have been doing quite a bit of research on that topic and am actually
planning to record the
pieces in vieil ton attributed to "Gautier" 'whatever the spelling)
along with the pieces by Mésangeau and Lespine,
when I get the funding...
All these peopole are more or less exact contemporaries, including
Robert Ballard and teheir style is very
coherent indeed. Sometimes Jacques Gaultier distinguishes himself, not
only by using a 12 course lute, but by a
different style too, not as "continental" as the others. But I must
agree that the distinction is very very hard to do sometimes.
He (Jacques) left Frace not to return, in 1617 when the others were
starting careers at court or in the service of rich nobles. Very much a
sort of emerging "French school" there.
What is also interesting is that, some of them, Mesangeau, Ballard,
Lespine, and some "Gaultier", very probably Ennemond most of the time,
are also represented in the accord nouveaux repertoire.
And yet, strangely enough Vieux Gaultier is mainly known for his pieces
in baroque tuning.
Knowing that the first publication using this d minor tuning was by
Bouvier in 1638, it is hard to believe that Vieux Gaultier, who was
about 63 then and retiring to his original Dauphiné,
after the banishment of his employer, Queen Mother Marie de Medicis,
would have built up his immense reputation on pieces in the new baroque
tuning in the last 14 years of his life.....
So it is a matter rational reasoning to admit of that a good deal of
his production lies in manuscripts in vieil ton and accord nouveaux.
And there is some evidence, (scant at the moment but in it's a work
progress) that pieces in transitional tuning also appear a bit later on
in the D minor tuning...
Best,
Jean-Marie Poirier
--------------
> Dear Ron,
> I have a whole volume of vieux Gautier by CNRS. Are you saying their
> scholarship is mostly just speculation?
> G.
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Ron Andrico
<[1][2]praelu...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Rainer:
> As you know from John Robinson's list, most of the manuscript
> pieces in
> old tuning cited merely indicate various spellings of
"Gautier",
> and
> there are no firm attributions to Ennemond. However, I
believe
> that a
> handful of pieces from Herbert are by Ennemond and not by
Jacques
> as
> they are usually speculatively ascribed. My attribution is
> likewise
> pure speculation but based on sound reasoning.
> Mary Burwell's anonymous lute tutor described Jacques as
having a
> thunderous approach to playing his basses, which may very well
> only
> have been a critique of his extended-bass instrument. But
if
> you
> spend a bit of time with Ennemond's music in d-minor tuning,
you
> can
> develop a sense of his style, which appears quite simple but
is
> very
> delicate and nuanced.
> Try the courante in Herbert f. 37, for instance, and the
simpler
> but
> very delicate courante in Herbert f. 40v. I also tend to
think
> Aegidius f. 67v and f. 100v are by Ennemond.
> RA
> ____________________________________________________________
> ______
> From: [2][3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[3][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> on behalf
> of Rainer <[4][5]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 2:54 PM
> To: Lute net
> Subject: [LUTE] Gautier in viel ton
> Dear lute netters,
> can anybody recommend pieces by Ennemond Gautier in viel ton
> (with
> sources)?
> I have John Robinson's list, but it is very old and, of
course,
> doesn't
> tell us anything about the quality of the music.
> Rainer adS
> PS
> of course, I have a 10c lute.
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
[1][5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> [2]Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail
list
> [6]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
> Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list.
> getting
> on and off the list; How do I get on the lute mail list? How
do I
> get
> off the lute mail list?
> --
> References
> 1.
[7][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 2.
[8][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
>References
>
> 1. mailto:[9]praelu...@hotmail.com
> 2. mailto:[10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3. mailto:[11]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 4. mailto:[12]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
> 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 6. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
> 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 8. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. https://yho.com/footer0
2. javascript:return
3. javascript:return
4. javascript:return
5. javascript:return
6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. javascript:return
10. javascript:return
11. javascript:return
12. javascript:return
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
