Hi Arthur, I would also add that anyone who has sung from the Odhecaton series--vocal partbooks--knows how many errors those books have. They don't need complete re-arranging in a later style, just careful editing to determine what likely went wrong, along with comparison to other versions. That's the main problem with the Spinacino: there's very little else to compare his works to . . . I'm very reluctant to start pretending I know what he "intended" and filling things in. And the intabulations are damned difficult, in places. Finally, it makes it all the more discouraging that the Giovan Maria Alemanni is gone; that was the one professional lutenist that Petrucci published and the most "instrumental" of the tabs! Why couldn't we have lost Pisador instead? ;-) Best, Gary
Virus-free. [1]www.avast.com On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Arthur Ness <[2]arthurjn...@verizon.net> wrote: Hi Gary! I think you're "right on" with your comments. Here is the Spinacino print, a unica, thought to have been destroyed in WW_II. [3]http://ks.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usimg/f/f5/IMSLP434841-PMLP706772- spinacino_1.pdf I think Wilson's perspective is a few centuries off. His mention of Pasquini suggests as much. He is not approaching the music on its own terms, but rather as he thinks it should be. Many ricercars use toccata figuration. And that is essentially what happens in Spinacino's vocal settings in which the vocal quotation serves as cantus firmus. I listened to his harpsichord "arrangement" of a Spinacino ricercar. It sounds a century off for me as well. Spinacino actually looks backward in his pieces--under the spell of 15th-century plectrum ("simplex") lutenist style. Glenn Wilson should listen to our Wilsons, Christopher and Shirley Ramsey: Early Venetian Lute Music (Naxos 8.553694). Here's something in that style from the famous Cancionero de la Catedral de Segovia (copied ca. 1498-1502): [4]http://home.planet.nl/~teuli049/RoeDetousbiens% 20Half2octaafsleutels.pdf Lute seems to be he only string instrument from that time capable of playing such a wide range. And so nicely organized with repeated rhythmic and melodic motives to provide uniformity. There are also other similar instrumental pieces around folio 200 in the Cancionero, the last pieces in the Franco-Flemish section. Six are by Tinctoris. Arnold den Teuling identifies "Roelkin" (Little Rudolf in Dutch) as Rodolphus Agricola (1444-1485) Thus the Spinacino pieces are written under the spell of plectrum ("simplex") lutenist style of 15th-century masters such as Pietrobono da Ferrara, who performed such duos with a tenorista accompanying on viola da mano. Arthur Ness [5]arthurjn...@verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boye <[6]boy...@appstate.edu> To: Arthur Ness <[7]arthurjn...@verizon.net> Cc: Lutelist <[8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 2:29 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Interesting perspective on Spinacino & Petrucci Arthur, Do you agree with his statements about Spinacino? I'm a little uncomfortable about the dismissiveness towards this work. Stanley Boorman's Ottaviano Petrucci: catalogue raisonnà © outlined the unusual history of these early books and noted that the scale of production was quite small--in fact, the Spinacino book had a list of subscribers and probably a run much smaller than later lute books. To say that Petrucci abandoned printing lute tablature because of all the errors ignores the fact that he did continue to print lute tablatures (another Spinacino book, the lost Giovanni Maria Alemani, Dalza, Bossinensis). It also ignores the fact that these are some of the most beautifully printed of all the early lute books, from an aesthetic standpoint, without the awkward lines of movable staff blocks seen in later prints. His comments do a disservice at least to Petrucci, if not to Spinacino as well, who after all was an amateur. Sure there are errors, but there are errors in every printed lute tablature out there (and most of the manuscript ones). And I wonder if some of the "errors" are problems with interpretation of the tablature and with a lack of knowledge of the lute. I don't find them "obviously corrupt" or "disastrous"--at least not to a level I would call "often"--in any case. Just my 2c, Gary On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Arthur Ness <[1][9]arthurjn...@verizon.net> wrote: It is an interesting quest, to seek relations between keyboard and lute music. One of the most eminent organists of the day was Julio (Giulio) Segni da Modena--mentioned often in Glen Wilson CD notes. He was first organist at St. Mark's Basilica, and is said to have published over 50 keyboard/ensemble ricercars. Alas, only 11 survive to this day in their original mensural notation. In one source, **Musica Nova** of 1540 (modern edition by Colin Slim) only the bass part exists. Some of the lost works survive in intabulations for lute. But Segni's name is often omitted. One instance is the Domenico Bianchini tablature of 1546. The first two ricercars are intabulations of Segni's work, not original lute works by Bianchini (as is usually thought). And Bianchini? He was professionally a mosaicist. Working where? Together with Segni at St. Mark's: one on a scaffold, the other down below at the organ. In 1548, Giovanni Maria da Crema published a dozen Segni ricercars intabulated for lute, eleven which are among the lost pieces. . Arthur Ness [2][10]arthurjn...@verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: Daniel F. Heiman <[3][11]heiman.dan...@juno.com> To: lute <[4][12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 8:44 am Subject: [LUTE] Interesting perspective on Spinacino & Petrucci In a set of notes for a harpsichord recording : [1][5][13]https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp? item_code=8.572998 &ca tNumW2998&filetype «out this Recording&language=English# Particularly the 8^th paragraph, dealing with track 1. Daniel Heiman -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][6][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [7][15]https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp? item_code=8.572998&ca 2. [8][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr. Gary R. Boye Erneston Music Library Appalachian State University -- References 1. [17]mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 2. [18]mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 3. [19]mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 4. [20]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. [21]https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp? item_code=8.572998 6. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. [23]https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp? item_code=8.572998&ca 8. [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Dr. Gary R. Boye Erneston Music Library Appalachian State University -- References Visible links 1. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link 2. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 3. http://ks.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usimg/f/f5/IMSLP434841-PMLP706772-spinacino_1.pdf 4. http://home.planet.nl/~teuli049/RoeDetousbiens Half2octaafsleutels.pdf 5. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 6. mailto:boy...@appstate.edu 7. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 10. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 11. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com 12. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 15. https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 17. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net? 18. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net? 19. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com? 20. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu? 21. https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp?item_code=8.572998 22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 23. https://www.naxos.com/mainsite/blurbs_reviews.asp?item_code=8.572998&ca 24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Hidden links: 26. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon 27. file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L12378-6413TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
