Stephen J. Turnbull <mailto:step...@xemacs.org>
February 19, 2014 07:47
Joe writes:
> Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he
> feel so strongly about this ?
Just because. What more reason does anyone need?
I personally strongly disliked cPanel for a long time because they and
their customers (the host services, not the users) dumped some of
their support on us. Inadvertantly, I'm sure, but I don't cut vendors
who don't publish derivative source much slack. (Just a disclaimer
of personal bias, you needn't sympathize with me. Anyway, more
recently they have been trying to work out how to be better citizens
in the Mailman community. :-)
> What problems should I expect to encounter ?
Something that you need to think about, at least long enough to read
the whole point:
1. Mailman sometimes gets wedged (at least, it has done so in the
past, I'm not promising it will ever happen again, much less
happen to you :-). When it does, often somebody needs to access
the message queues directly, which you can't do without shell
access (and probably shouldn't be able to do on a shared
installation because you could trash somebody else's mail). This
could indeed happen to you. Suppose it does -- I'll bet Brian's
company will get it resolved withing hours in 99% of the rare
cases when it does happen. (Ask him for actual details, I have no
relation to or even real knowledge of his company -- I just like
him because he's friendly and occasionally answers question here
even if they don't seem like a way to attract a customer. :-)
Would something that happens on the average once in ten years to a
given list, that takes 24 hours or less to resolve, put your
organization out of business? If yes, cPanel is out, otherwise,
why not?
I suspect your IT specialist buddy is a bit OCD about these things,
and a one-hour delay would be enough to get him spelling in all caps. ;-)
As a non-specialist, the following probably do *not* apply to you, but
for completeness:
2. In high-volume situations, many admins prefer to use withlist, a
command line script, for mass moderation. No shell access, no can
do. This also can happen to you, if your list attracts specific
attention from a bad guy.
3. If you have many lists, and need to make a configuration change
to each of those lists, again withlist is your friend.
4. Certain customizations to the website require changing Mailman
code because the page in question is fully-software generated (no
template at all).
5. Custom Handlers can be added to the post processing pipeline, but
only if you have access to the code. I have two special-purpose
Handlers that I use for my own lists, and a third, used to
integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman, is quite popular. (This is
not the preferred way to use SpamAssassin, but it works for a lot
of Mailman site admins.)
There may be others I can't recall offhand, but they're similar. I
think you can see that these are probably not major concerns for you.
For most non-technical users cPanel is a good way to go.
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Joe <mailto:joemailgro...@gmail.com>
February 18, 2014 13:50
Hi, Brian.
Thanks for your reply. I will be calling you soon.
I will not disclose the name or e-mail of the IT specialist but his
private message to me expressed his concern over the use of cPanel as
a tool for the management of Mailman.
Here is an excerpt from the e-mail I received:
Joe, unless you have COMPLETE "List Control", DON'T do it ! ! !
If you think you HATE the "baby sitting" of current set-up, you don't
know/fully understand
the full meaning of HATE ! ! !
For over a decade I have prayed to "Hit the Lottery" as very FIRST
thing I would do is pay
for Dedicated Server so I could have FULL control without the "Baby
Sitting" of cPanel ! ! !
Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he
feel so strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?
Thank you,
Joseph.
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Brian Carpenter <mailto:br...@emwd.com>
February 18, 2014 13:36
-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
bounces+brian=emwd....@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org Users
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
Hello, everyone.
In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize
a
cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one
that
doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
specialist I
don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would
it
not allow me full control of my lists ?
In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
lists
with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
Thank you in advance,
Joe.
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users/brian%40emwd.com
Hi Joe:
I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.
cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.
cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.
If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com
Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com
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Joe <mailto:joemailgro...@gmail.com>
February 18, 2014 13:28
Hello, everyone.
In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a
message from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services
that utilize a cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad
arrangement and one that doesn't provide me full control of my lists.
Since I am not an IT specialist I don't know what a cPanel is or how
this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten me ? What is a cPanel,
why can this be a problem and how would it not allow me full control
of my lists ?
In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
lists with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
Thank you in advance,
Joe.
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