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Proyect wrote: Well, I am not interested in email debates to tell you the truth. What in the world can anybody get out of anything you have written here, messages devoid of data or evidence or statistics or the rich historical and social fabric of Greek society? When I am interested in airing my views, I do it on my blog and usually after having read a substantial amount of material as I did the other day on Syriza. I read at least 25 articles to put together a decently researched article, mostly based on first-rate reporting from Links in Australia. Right now I am researching an article on the Greek economic problems that is based on articles I have already read by Elmar Altvater, Stathis Kouvelakis and Stavros Mavroudeas. I am following up with reading every article that Michael Roberts has written about Greece. When I began writing about Ukraine, it was only after reading books on Crimea and Ukraine and about 20 articles. That is because I take my ideas seriously whether you agree with them or not. Your problem is that your contributions to this forum are superficial and utterly lacking in substance. This would not be a problem if you weren't so god-damned provocative. Not everybody has the motivation to go to a research library or pour through articles on the net to make a contribution but at least they are sensible enough not to pretend that they are making a contribution to Marxism based on a 200 or 300 word email. ******************** Provocation can sometimes be in the eye of the reader. Some might say that hurling epithets--sectarian, Spartacist, ignoramus-- as a first reply to what began as a series of angular but fairly polite comments from me, might have had something to do with the escalating acerbity of this exchange. A sectarian is apparently anyone who disagrees with Louis from the left, an ignoramus anyone who ventures to express an opinion without offering a 10,000-word disquisition . Since my previous post did not make it onto Marxmail in its entirety, I will reiterate here that the "sectarian" Weekly Worker is far less impatient of debate than the dedicated anti-sectarian, Louis Proyect. Louis emphasizes the importance of background knowledge, and his diligence in acquiring information is commendable. As a former computer programmer, he is no doubt data-driven. He seems not to appreciate, however, that data are only useful in so far as they can be deployed within a logical framework. He has thus far failed to bring his factual knowledge to bear within the framework of the questions I have raised and the arguments I have presented.His only conceptual gauge--and basis for political allegiance--seems to be the narrow quantitative one congenial to a man of his metier: the number of followers and/or votes a given leftwing party or personality is able to attract. The facts are indispensable. But a tangle of logically disconnected and undigested facts can obscure rather than reveal. I believe this insight is expressed in a saying about forests and trees. Since this thread seems to me to have run its course, I will make no further postings to it. I would only point out that the question underlying this exchange--one that Louis dismisses as of no interest to anyone but diehard sectarians like me--is one that has preoccupied Marxism since its birth: reform or revolution. If Louis thinks this question has been settled by history in the way that liberal opinion assures us that it has been settled-- by the triumph of neoliberalism and the collapse of the Soviet Union-- he might do us the favor of saying so. Absent such a white flag, it is unclear from what heights of empirical wisdom he deems this question unworthy of discussion or.why, for that matter, he continues to style himself a Marxist. Eduard Bernstein, after all, ultimately discarded the label. For my part, I am convinced that the question remains pertinent, and will inevitably pose itself again in the events now unfolding in Greece and Europe. Jim Creegan Reply Forward James Creegan <sectaria...@gmail.com> 5:04 PM (3 minutes ago) to marxism-request _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
