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Very interesting, Lou. Very. I cannot of course speak to the American context. I was interested though to read that you thought a left wing party was a possibility at the moment or sometime reasonably soon. I did think that the British context is relevant to the take over discussion. Precisely because it is not a shell, the Corbynites have been able to colonize the level of party membership within the British Labour Party. It is that fact that is transforming left politics in the UK and excited the likes of Richard Seymour (and myself). Corbyn's two electoral victories were a direct challenge to the layer where power traditionally resided - namely the Parliamentary Labour Party. Corbyn defeated the PLP, especially in his second campaign. Power has, in response, retreated to the National Executive Committee, which blatantly and undemocratically created an Anti-Corbyn majority overnight by appointing right wingers from Scotland and Wales as executive members. So the result has been a kind of stale mate which leaves Corbyn at the mercy of a protracted sniping campaign from his enemies in the executive and the PLP. The moral of the UK story is that takeover bids are extremely difficult. Power protects itself and flows to where it can do so. If you have a notion of ontological depth, this process is easier to grasp. I suspect that within the Democratic Party this would be even more so. The metaphor of the "shell" would turn out to be very misleading. Power would flow to a layer which we might not even suspect exists. It would appear, maybe, that I have used power here almost in the Foucauldian sense. Nothing could be further from my intentions. It is the class power of the bourgeoisie that I have in mind. And that power created the Democratic Party and will not easily surrender it. comradely Gary _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com