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One of the problems with the way this debate is framed is the determination to claim that anyone who is gender-critical is transphobic, in the same way that anyone opposed to Israel is deemed to be antisemitic. An example from one of the links in MM's post follows. Quoting a "Women's Place UK" speaker, the article proceeds: *"And there are predatory men who will use any means to gain … access to women’s spaces when they are vulnerable* -yes, she means trans women" Actually, the insertion "yes, she means trans women" is pure editorialising slotted in as fact. The speaker is discussing the possibility of self declared MtF women entering women's spaces. Right now, no one checks anyone's ID when they enter a changing room. But with self ID, the taboo to men simply walking into women's changing facilities is massively lowered. And evidence suggests that male violence against women and male violence in general is significantly higher that that perpetrated by women. Even getting gender reassignment surgery does not change this fact: *“[R]egarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR6.6; 95% CI4.1-10.88 <https://speakupforwomen.nz/sufw_essays/reasons-for-safeguarding-concerns-with-self-id/#easy-footnote-bottom-8-560>) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5-1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true for violent crime.”* *“ Criminal activity, particularly violent crime, is much more common among men than women in the general population….Crime after sex reassignment, however, has not previously been studied. In this study, male-to-female individuals had a higher risk for criminal convictions compared to female controls but not to male controls. This suggests that the sex reassignment procedure neither increased nor decreased the rate of criminal offending in male-to-females.” https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885 <https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885>* Ironically, only by accepting that "trans women are women" does the statement become transphobic. Because if trans women are women, then trans women are six times more violent than "cis" women. But if trans women are men, they are no more violent than other men, so the concern is with any men, not trans. Which is, of course, what most gender critical people have always maintained. So concern about trans women having unfettered access to women's spaces is patently *not* about transphobia, but about male violence - exactly the reason such female only spaces were established in the first place. If we one day get to a point where male violence against women as a phenomenon is a thing of the past, the issue of who uses what spaces will be substantively different. But as long as the evidence suggests that all male-born, *regardless of their gender identity*, are statistically more likely to present a risk to women, I believe women have the right to retain those spaces. If women-only spaces are no longer valid now, when male violence against women is still high, how were they ever valid before. It is not up to male born people to decide they have the right to those spaces, regardless of how sincerely they identify as women. And I would have thought that those male born who genuinely identify as women would get that. Some, of course, like Miranda Yardley, do get it and want no part in these campaigns. Bottom line - what are men being asked to compromise on? Nothing. What are women being told to compromise on? Hard won gains that women and socialists fought for decades to achieve. Are women (particularly lesbians) really the oppressor group they are portrayed as? I don't think so. The reality is, we need specialist facilities to cater to the needs of trans people rather than taking spaces from women. Trans wings in prisons, trans shelters, unisex *as well as* sex segregated toilet and changing facilities etc, rather than requiring women and girls to relinquish their spaces (changing rooms etc) to people with penises. On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:33 AM MM via Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > Text: > > We are members of the Labour Party expressing solidarity with trans people > in the face of hate from the media and by anti-trans groups in the UK. We > recognise that the UK has recently experienced a week of coordinated > pernicious attacks on trans people, including the launching of the > execrable LGB Alliance and a motion passed at Hornsey & Wood Green General > Meeting in support of Womans Place UK. The failure of the Labour Party on > this issue is a deep wound to the principles of equality the Party is > supposed to stand for. > > Let us be under no illusions. The motion passed at Hornsey & Wood Green > supports a transphobic organisation: > > > https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/25/university-of-oxford-protest-transgender-feminism-womans-place/ > > https://clareflourish.wordpress.com/2018/04/30/womans-place-uk-transphobic/ > > > https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2019/10/23/trans-exclusionary-group-womans-place-uk-set-to-hold-a-panel-in-oxford/ > > Failure of the General Secretary's office to rule the motion out of order > in the first place is hard to comprehend but to still have failed to > intervene to rule it out now that it has received some publicity and is > going to Tottenham CLP is unconscionable. Our confidence in the Labour > Party's commitment to protect trans members is shaken. Action must be taken. > > > Link: > > > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfb0_wA_hDX-iq5scn-L2OqrnwkfpklSptSQFJFovRJMizcQw/viewform > > More than 500 signatures so far. > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/johnedmundson4%40gmail.com > -- The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common But leaves the greater villain loose Who steals the common from the goose _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
