I kind of like thinking of sharing as marketing by another name. (A less
"traditional"one?) Both are an investment in developing an income-producing
resource.
And there are museums with a real need to develop the revenue-producing
capabilities of their image (and other content) resources, in order to bring in
more income, so that they can remain viable and fulfill their missions.
Any and all ideas or models for how to do this should be welcome.
Amalyah
________________________________________
?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Virginia
Rutledge [virginiarutledge at yahoo.com]
??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 21:22
????: Museum Computer Network Listserv
??????: Re: [MCN-L] ??RE: Re image 'theft'
Of course it's great to see CC put into the mix of this discussion!
CC-NC licenses are one way to reserve the museum's right to commercial
exploitation, where appropriate. But first comes the policy question, which for
nonprofits really is the same as the business model question, isn't it? What
rights are worth asserting, and on what grounds?
CC Zero is a legal tool that enables waiver of rights (and thus is not a
license per se). Some museums may find it appropriate to give up rights they
don't want to assert ( realize some may find that controversial, and solicit
feedback) and/or to proactively put out to the public certain images in which
others may inappropriately assert rights. Such as, I would argue, any
"straight" image of a work in the public domain to which image anyone claims
copyright.
Pulling in a comment from another thread, there are an increasing number of
studies that suggest that some sharing builds sales. But this may be genre and
content-specific, and there's just not a lot of data yet that an empiricist
could love. Sharing experiences among this list is thus a very valuable thing.
--- On Wed, 5/6/09, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] <akeshet at
imj.org.il> wrote:
From: Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] <akes...@imj.org.il>
Subject: [MCN-L] ??RE: Re image 'theft'
To: "Museum Computer Network Listserv" <mcn-l at mcn.edu>
Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 10:13 AM
Just to nitpick, a Creative Commons license is an assertion of copyright. That
is, it grants permission based on the assumption / fact / assertion that the
work is protected by copyright. For example, the "attribution, non-commercial,
share alike" license asserts that the creator/copyright holder must be
credited, it is limited to non-commercial uses based on the creator/copyright
holder's exclusive rights, and on the same basis the creator/copyright holder
can insist that the end user grant the same license on the new works he creates.
(Virginia: jump in here before I bury myself any deeper.)
.
There is, however, now a CC0 ('CC Zero') license that is "may be used by
anyone wishing to permanently surrender the copyright and database rights they
may have in a work, thereby placing it as nearly as possible into the public
domain" which speaks to what you're suggesting. I wonder, however, if choosing
this option would be a good business decision for a museum or even a matter of
public responsibility. I'm not saying it isn't -- I'm just wondering.
Amalyah
________________________________________
?????: ??mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] ??? Kenneth Hamma
[khamma at me.com]
??????: ????? ????? 06 ??? 2009 19:10
????: Museum Computer Network Listserv
??????: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft'
The argument that I made was not intended to be based on a strict
interpretation of copyright law but on public responsibility. So,
with respect to my note, most of this is beside the point and a
restatement of traditional argument.
I should have been clearer in my assertion of the business decision.
The notion of copyright is indeed a legal matter. Whether or not to
assert copyright (not merely how much to charge) is, however, a
business decision as there are numerous alternative courses for the
creator. Among these are a variety of Creative Commons licensing
schemes to a complete waiver of copyright.
ken
Kenneth Hamma
+1 310 270 8008
khamma at me.com
368 Patel Place
Palm Springs CA 92264
On May 6, 2009, at 3:40 AM, Amalyah Keshet [akeshet at imj.org.il] wrote:
> Just to stir the pot a bit:
>
> Not every museum or archive is a "public charity." Even if that is
> a particular museum's legal status, it doesn't affect the legal
> application of copyright protection to any photographs it produces.
>
> The assertion of copyright in photographs (including "visual
> surrogates") is indeed a legal matter. It is a business decision
> whether or not to charge money for licensing these images. There is
> a clear legal distinction between the photograph as a protectable
> creation and the underlying object / work / subject that appears in
> that photograph.
>
> As to "theft," yes it does happen, and yes it obviously and
> logically results in a loss of potential income. The question is,
> how much, and does it matter in the end. And the size of the image
> certainly doesn't matter. A small 72dpi image can be lifted and
> used in advertising on a commercial website with no effort,
> resulting in a loss of significant potential licensing income. This
> is simple logic. And in this particular example, it's legally
> simple: it's copyright infringement, not "sharing." "There is no
> business model in stealing images" -- of course there is; I've run
> into several, um, publishing establishments based on that business
> model.
>
> The interesting issues are in the less blatant examples -- real
> digital sharing, not commercial rip-off. How do we deal with that?
> Because we're not going to get anywhere by calling normative digital
> activity, including sharing, "theft." And some of our institutions
> really do (sorry, Ken) depend on income from image licensing, among
> other sources, to stay alive. We need new business models. We need
> to figure out how to be Google: how to not produce a product, not
> to offer anything more than thin air (a platform, access, ranking,
> ones-and-zeros) and yet to make billions, become the source of all
> knowledge, and take over the world.
>
>
> Amalyah Keshet
> Head of Image Resources & Copyright Management
> The Israel Museum, Jerusalem
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf
> Of Kenneth Hamma
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:40 PM
> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Re image 'theft'
>
> Regardless the size of the imagined revenue loss, the notion of
> 'theft' may not be entirely appropriate here, speaking only of
> payment for IP licensing not payment for services or product.
> Remember that the institutions mentioned so far operate as public
> charities - receiving a tax benefit but also encumbered with certain
> public- benefit responsibilities as a result. And leaving aside
> works still under copyright, for which we all have well known
> obligations, as well as works that maintain vital roles in the
> communities in which they were created, these collections consist of
> natural specimens or creative works now in the public domain. Who
> in this scenario would be thieving from whom?
>
> For these works, the assertion of copyright in visual surrogates and
> metadata is not a legal decision (so don't start with lawyers) but a
> business decision that has on more than one occasion been described
> purely as an effort to maintain monopoly control. Is it possible to
> square this with public charities managing public domain collections?
>
> ken
>
>
> Kenneth Hamma
>
> +1 310 270 8008
> khamma at me.com
>
> 368 Patel Place
> Palm Springs CA 92264
>
> On May 5, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Proctor, Nancy wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Matt Morgan for raising the question of who has actually
>> lost revenues from putting images, even high quality ones, online. I
>> share his skepticism that it's actually as big a problem as we
>> fear. I
>> suspect that it will take less effort and fewer resources to deal
>> with
>> the small number of thefts that will arise than all the wringing of
>> hands and hiring of lawyers for pre-emptive action that we currently
>> engage in.
>>
>> We're discussing business models for the Smithsonian at the moment,
>> so
>> I added Matt's comments at this link:
>>
>> http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/message/view/Business
>> +Mo
>> dels+W
>> orkshop+Real-Time+Notes/11773461
>>
>> This is a public wiki, so you're all welcome to participate in the
>> conversation!
>>
>> Nancy
>>
>> Nancy Proctor
>> Head of New Media Initiatives
>> Smithsonian American Art Museum
>> MRC 970 PO Box 37012
>> Washington DC 20013-7012
>> USA
>>
>> t: +1-202-633-8439
>> c: +1-301-642-6257
>> f: +1-202-633-8455
>>
>> http://www.americanart.si.edu
>> http://eyelevel.si.edu/
>>
>> On 5/5/09 3:00 PM, "mcn-l-request at mcn.edu" <mcn-l-request at mcn.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Eric Johnson
>>> Sent: Tue 5/5/2009 11:55 AM
>>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
>>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes
>>>
>>> Matt raises an interesting point: has anybody ever had any problems
>>> with people "lifting" high-quality images of your collection without
>>> seeking permission and making money with them (posters, t-shirts,
>>> etc.)?
>>>
>>> The only thing I can think of off-hand is more in the vein of taking
>>> print-quality images and using them in books without permission.
>>> But
>>> then again, I'm not familiar with any example of that actually
>>> happening; it's just a worry passed down from higher-ups.
>>>
>>> But I'm curious about any specific examples of such unauthorized
>>> reproduction that anybody might have.
>>>
>>> --E.
>>>
>>> Eric D. M. Johnson
>>> Web Services Librarian
>>> Jefferson Library, Monticello
>>> P.O. Box 316
>>> Charlottesville, VA 22902
>>> Phone: (434) 984-7540 | Fax: (434) 984-7546
>>> http://www.monticello.org/library/
>>> ejohnson at monticello.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Morgan, Matt [mailto:matt.morgan at metmuseum.org]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:44 AM
>>> To: Museum Computer Network Listserv
>>> Subject: Re: [MCN-L] image sizes
>>>
>>> I get it, definitely. There are lots of things we should be doing,
>>> but don't, purely for least-cost path analysis. But it's raining
>>> like
>>> crazy here so it's a good day to sit in my office and rant about one
>>> of my bugbears a little bit.
>>>
>>> We (the museum community) have hardly ever (never?) seen a
>>> significant, commercial, inappropriate, reuse of museum object
>>> images. It just isn't done--there is no business model in stealing
>>> images. Getting images of more than 1000px (from Flickr, for
>>> example)
>>> of our objects is a trivial matter, so it cannot be that increasing
>>> image sizes on our own websites will make this problem materialize.
>>>
>>> I am utterly, totally sympathetic to the political problems we all
>>> face.
>>> I just think it's time to get over this image-size thing and start
>>> letting people enjoy our images instead of squinting at them or
>>> blowing them up until they're fuzzy.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum
>> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
>>
>> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
>>
>> The MCN-L archives can be found at:
>> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum
> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
>
> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu
>
> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
>
> The MCN-L archives can be found at:
> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum
> Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
>
> To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu
>
> To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
>
> The MCN-L archives can be found at:
> http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer
Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu
To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
The MCN-L archives can be found at:
http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer
Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu
To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
The MCN-L archives can be found at:
http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer
Network (http://www.mcn.edu)
To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu
To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit:
http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
The MCN-L archives can be found at:
http://toronto.mediatrope.com/pipermail/mcn-l/
