On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Dotan wrote:
Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Thu, Dec 01, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about "Re: An out of the
box solution?":
As I see that the audiance is people which are involved and care about
FOSS and
which the use mailing list method drives them away.
Dotan, what you're saying doesn't make much sense. First, Hamakor's mailing
list is just one tool it uses to keep members connected.
I'm talking of breaking the limited members circle and get more people to be
involved in the discussion which are the essence of Hamakor (as its pointed
time and again that the activities are driven by the people and not by the
amuta) in hope they will also take part in the activities when they get the
larger picture.
There was an effort to create a newsletter and publish it on the site.
Orna was (is?) in charge of writing it, but due to lack of time, no
newsletter was published for a long time. In any case, if there is anyone
willing to be a contact person with forums and update them on Hamakor
actions, we will be very glad.
The discussions list is open to subscriptions and anyone can join.
Furthermore, archives are available online.
There are also
snail-mail letters, there are physical assemblies, conferences (like August
Penguin), not to mention members who meet in various occasions, and so on.
That remains in the limited members circle.
August penguin was published on any means that was available to us,
including all fourms.
Hamakor members also frequent Web-forums and other venues for discussions,
which were not necessarily created as an official Hamakor medium (as you
know, Rashut Hadoar also wasn't created by Hamakor, but we use it for our
purposes ;-)).
They (hamakor members) are there as individuals and most forums readers are
kept out of the circle as they are not updated/informed by all the means you
detailed above and untill recently they didn't have any option to follow
Hamakor discussions and ever since theres an option they were not informed
about it (partly because I wasn't asked to inform them)
Anyone could have joined the mailing lists. Hamakor board members try to
post important issues on websites such as Whatsup and linmagazine, however
we cannot do that with any single update.
You cannot just discout it as being "inconvenient". If this Ram Matityahu
refuses to use email and email lists, he loses out on much more than
Hamakor
discussions: He will also be unable to contribute to most Free Software
projects! Do you think that if he tells Linus Torvalds to call him on the
phone or join him on some "forum" of his choice - because he couldn't be
bothered to subscribe to the linux-kernel- mailing list - this will ever
happen? Linus would just laugh at his face.
The similarity is odd ;)
Linus is not activly looking for contributors and when he does I'm sure he
knows what to do (including personal corespodance, phones and more).
Hamakor talks as if it looks for contributors but does nothing to reach them
and alternativly waits to be contacted by the means it dictate.
Our calls for volunteers are routienly posted on sites such as Whatsup.
Posting every notice on three sites in addition to our mailing lists
required a lot of duplicated effort, that there is no volunteer willing to
do, including you.
Alternatively, if Ram cares but really hates reading mail, he could ask you
(who does read the mail) if there was anything important. This is similar
to busy executives who don't have time to read journals and so on, so they
ask others to summarize things for them. They don't just say "this journal
takes too long to read, so I'll just ignore it".
Ram (as an example for the audiance currently left aside) can hold his will
to contribute but he offers it. Holding him back, by any mean, and asking him
to use mail is like asking a right handed to write with his left one
So you say Ram (and others) have a disability preventing them from using
anything that passed through SMTP. I really cannot grasp the difference
between logging into webmail and reading and posting message and logging
into a forum and reading and posting messages. If Ram will not use webmail,
he will not use a forum he doesn't frequent regularly.
(you may also add in this particular case Shlomi's mail which detail that
"Alon eventually told me to let him write the site..." and when you read,
emphesise the "eventualy".
I told Ram to write the site as soon as he volunteered to do so. He did
not.
Again, forums are not bad, and many of them already use them (e.g.,
Whatsup).
All of Hamakor's announcements end up on this forums. So what's wrong with
this? Would you want Hamakor to host its own forum on its own server? Why,
what's wrong with using an existing forum server?
Hamakor does extensive use of mailing lists. This mailing lists are not
accessible by most forums readers. There is a solution which can sync forums
and mailing list. At least one Israeli site implemented it and it looks very
good (at least as an opening stage if you want to adopt a sceptic view).
Technically theres a solution and the only thing to stop it is a decission.
Not exactly. Uri Sharf can decide whether or not to put a syncronized
forum for the discussions list. Other people (such as the board memebers)
will have to invest a significant effort to build and deploy such a system,
and you'll critisize us that we didn't publish it enough. The board welcomes
a syncronized forum, but for some reason, Uri is not willing to host it any
more.
Alon
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