Shawn, You are a member of the IMCA. I shouldn't have to do homework when I buy from you. When I ask for provenance in advance you should cheerfully provide it. I never questioned the authenticity of your material. I only asked for assurance prior to making a bid.
Is there really anyone that's going to try and undermine you at the source? Maybe, but I'm not one to pulverize micro's and I knew of your sources before you even considered meteorite collecting. I'll look up our private discussion on ebay if it's still there and let you decide who initiated rudeness. I believe I have it in a file somewhere. Seasoned Gratings, Bill ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 21:36:41 -0800 > From: photoph...@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and > with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > To: parkforest...@hotmail.com > CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Bill if you did your homework you would see I posted my provinces in the past > on the LIST, but wait that would matter cause you have no intensions of > buying from me. Lastly, if I was rude to you on eBay, it was because you were > rude to me first. You have a great night Bill and happy holidays to you Bill > :) > > Shawn Alan > IMCA 1633 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bill kies <parkforest...@hotmail.com> > To: photoph...@yahoo.com > Cc: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 8:49 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and > with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > > 1633, > > I don't recollect ever ganging up against you with anyone here or elsewhere. > I simply asked for provenance concerning one of your ebay offerings and you > were as rude through ebay, without knowing me there, as you are without > knowing me here. > > I don't expect you to explain yourself. I cringe at the thought. I only asked > that you explain the origins of your crumbs before I bid. And by the way, I > doubt dropping names will help you join "the best in the bizzness". > > Just Plain Bill > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:22:05 -0800 > > From: photoph...@yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and > > with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > To: parkforest...@hotmail.com > > CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > Billy Billy Billy Billllllllllllllllllllllll > > > > Your too much. your going to do this again..... Its funny, not to long ago > > you did this with some other member on the List and tried to gang up on me. > > Bill, you know this and I know this, you have never bought a meteorite from > > me and you will never will. I have been contacted by people in the past and > > the only reason why they want to know where I got the meteorite from, is so > > they can go to that source and never buy from me. Any WHOS, I buy from the > > best, ask Anne, Blain, Matt Morgan, Rob Elliot, EV, Mr Blood to name a few > > :) and I have done trades with the best in the bizzness. I do not need to > > explain myself to you BILL and I have already explained many times where I > > get my meteorites from on the List. > > > > Shawn Alan > > IMCA 1633 > > eBay store > > http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bill kies <parkforest...@hotmail.com> > > To: photoph...@yahoo.com > > Cc: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" > > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 7:57 PM > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and > > with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > > > > > Shawn, > > > > Thanks for the clarification. I feel safe now. On another note, I'd like to > > know why you refuse provenance until after your sales. I'd like to know the > > source before I bid. Not too much to ask I think. You explained that > > prospective buyers might try to circumvent you if they know your source but > > I don't think that applies to some of your micro offerings as they are so > > incredibly rare. Please explain further. > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:31:41 -0800 > > > From: photoph...@yahoo.com > > > To: meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, > > > and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > > > > > Hello Mike G and Listers > > > > > > Awhile back I had also posted something on the List about galeriacores on > > > ebay about questionable meteorites he has sold > > > and also his past in trying to sell fake meteorites. > > > > > > The first link is a 7g moon meteorite with a starting bid at $550.00 in > > > July 2011 trying to > > > be sold by galeriacores > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220806608402.pdf > > > The second link is another moon meteorite with a starting price for $650 > > > in July 2011 > > > with no reserve at 5 grams > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807099130.pdf > > > > > > The third link is another lunar meteorite posted to ebay on the same day > > > as the others > > > with a starting price of $455 at 5 grams. Right now this is a total of > > > 17g of Lunar meteorites > > > being sold for $1600, that's an heard of. > > > > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807099130.pdf > > > > > > Here are a couple more links of other items galeriacores was trying to > > > sell on eBay > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807514879.pdf > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220809004478.pdf > > > > > > In addition to those post I was also informed by another List member > > > about galeriacores > > > buying and meteorite wrong for around $200 on eBay and then turning around > > > and trying to sell it for $5000 on ebay. The links are down below... > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/160596972103.pdf > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220806740213.pdf > > > > > > I had confronted galeriacores about the lunars he was trying to pass off > > > as real > > > meteorites and all he could say was those we hard times. I see a few of > > > the meteorites > > > he has sold are questionable and I have bought a meteorite from him which > > > is very questionable > > > and need to have tests done. I can say this, I suggested to him to go on > > > meteorite central to clean his name when I called him out and he said we > > > wasn't going to. > > > > > > I have noticed he has real meteorites for sale, the cheap ones, and then > > > he has super rare > > > and expensive ones that look to good to be true. From the past auctions > > > he has done in trying to > > > pass of fake rocks as real meteorites, I would say it safe to assume that > > > there might > > > be meteorite hes selling that are questionable today, and I hope that the > > > people > > > that have boughten meteorites from him keep them far away from the > > > meteorite community > > > until this matter is dealt with. > > > > > > Again, I am going by what I have seen in the past, what I got from him, > > > and the fake lunar he was try to sell > > > off as real meteorites. > > > > > > Shawn Alan > > > IMCA 1633 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: MikeG <meteoritem...@gmail.com> > > > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > > > Cc: > > > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 3:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, > > > and with a certain seller. > > > > > > Hi Listees, > > > > > > I received many emails privately from concerned collectors. I think > > > it is time to reveal what I know and to let the collector public > > > decide what to do with their specimens that may be impacted by this. > > > > > > First, I do not have currently, or in the past, any material from this > > > person. So I have no personal dog in this fight. My motivation is > > > concern for the integrity of collections and the collector market in > > > general. One bad apple can make the entire bushel look bad. > > > > > > As of now, I am acting primarily on my own in revealing this. A > > > couple of other dealers are aware of the issue, but I will not speak > > > for them or name drop. They can chime in later if they feel the need. > > > Everyone agrees that this person is engaged in some questionable > > > behavior that calls into question the authenticity of some of the > > > specimens they sell. > > > > > > If this person reads this, and they want to respond, please do so. If > > > we have it wrong, and there is just some misunderstanding at work > > > here, then I hope the person will speak up on the record and clear > > > this up. No hard feelings involved - we just want to make sure a > > > given meteorite is what it is said to be. > > > > > > eBay seller - galeriacores > > > > > > website - meteoritefragments.com > > > > > > I do not know if the two above entities are connected or not. I > > > stumbled across the second one (meteoritefragments.com) and while > > > discussing it with another dealer, the issue of the first was raised > > > (galeriacores). > > > > > > Galeriacores has been questioned on this List in the past - a search > > > of the recent archives will show the discussion. It was a month or > > > two ago. There was also a second issue with this person regarding > > > mixed up NWA numbers and types - auction descriptions that did not > > > match the data in the Met Bull. There were also a questionable > > > specimen of Sutter's Mill that was mentioned. > > > > > > There is a lot of smoke and red flags here. If you have bought > > > something obvious or distinctive from this person, you probably have > > > nothing to worry about - an unclassified NWA sold for aesthetics or > > > certain easily-identifiable irons. But, if you bought a small crumb > > > or small specimen of something really rare, then I would be worried. > > > This person also sells a lot of material that appears to be legitimate > > > - which would lend cover and credibility to their other sales. So > > > trying to figure out what is what may prove difficult. But usually > > > where there is enough smoke, there is fire. > > > > > > Looking through Galeriacore's feedback profile, there are no negatives > > > or ticked off customers. Everyone seems happy with their purchases. > > > But, given the concerns raised here and previously, I would be taking > > > a hard second look at certain specimens bought from this seller. I > > > see some List members amongst this person's satisfied customers, and I > > > see a few collectors who I have sold meteorites to. These people > > > should take a look at their purchases and make sure everything is in > > > order. > > > > > > The meteoritefragments.com website has taken (stolen) images of > > > meteorites from myself and at least one other well-known dealer. At > > > least one of the rare specimens listed on that website for sale is > > > currently owned by another collector - the photo is stolen and the > > > specimen is actually owned by someone else who was not aware of the > > > website. Also, several photos are entirely wrong and not the right > > > type of meteorite. The owner of this website uses a private domain > > > services that cloaks the identity of the domain registrant, so there > > > is a generic name, but no actual contact info. There is a name given > > > on the website and an email address. I tried contacting the person > > > and received no reply. > > > > > > That is all. I am sorry this took up so much time, space, and energy. > > > Sometimes there is a dark side to meteorite collecting, and dubious > > > sellers are part of that problem. Those collectors out there looking > > > for genuine and authentic specimens should be aware of frauds and > > > likely-frauds. Since I have not personally bought anything from this > > > person, I cannot say for certain that I was burned. But there are > > > some troublesome questions surrounding some of this person's > > > specimens, and these questions need to be answered - here on this > > > list, or in private with the collectors involved. > > > > > > If Galeriacores or meteoritefragments.com want to chime in and > > > straighten things out for the record, then please do. If I am wrong, > > > I will sincerely apologize. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: MikeG <meteoritem...@gmail.com> > > > > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > > > > Cc: > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 8:19 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, > > > > and > > > > with a certain seller. > > > > > > > > Hi List and Concerned Collectors, > > > > > > > > Do not panic. I do not think this is an epic-level scammer of the > > > > Madoff level. But I want to make sure we have all of our ducks lined > > > > up into neat row before we call someone out in public. > > > > > > > > I will say this - it is someone who has been caused concerns to be > > > > raised in the recent past on the List. It started some discussion, > > > > but then the chatter died off. The person continued doing what they > > > > were doing and may be connected to another shady endeavour recently > > > > discovered. I know a couple of other collectors and dealers who have > > > > dealt with this person, and we want to share data and see if it really > > > > is as bad as it looks. > > > > > > > > It may be tomorrow before I have learned anything new or may have > > > > something public to say. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/6/12, MikeG <meteoritem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi List, > > > >> > > > >> As a collector first, dealer second, and passionate meteorite nut > > > >> third, I share the common sentiment that the integrity of the world's > > > >> meteorite collections is a top priority for all of us. Whether it is > > > >> a large museum like the Smithsonian or a small micromount collector, > > > >> it is important that any and all specimens in that collection are > > > >> genuine and labeled correctly. It is a shame and a disservice to the > > > >> entire meteorite community (scientific and layperson) when a dealer > > > >> knowingly misrepresents specimens as something they are not. Whether > > > >> it's a big whole stone the size of a football, or a tiny Bessey Speck, > > > >> it is of the utmost importance that the specimen be genuine. If it's > > > >> billed, sold, and labeled as Tissint Martian, then it damn well better > > > >> be Tissint Martian. I won't nitpick the weight 1mg or the other, > > > >> because scales vary. But the material better be what it is sold to > > > >> be. > > > >> > > > >> Secondly, if I am seeing a photo of a specimen for sale on a dealer's > > > >> website, that photo better represent a specimen that dealer owns and > > > >> that dealer shot the photo or has permission from the original > > > >> photographer to use that photo. We've seen dealers who steal photos > > > >> from other dealers and then try to pull scams and sell specimens they > > > >> don't actually own. This is not an isolated unique thing - it has > > > >> happened before, been pointed out on this List in the past, and it is > > > >> happening again. I will say this, to my knowledge, the guilty party > > > >> is NOT a List member that is active or known. This person may be a > > > >> lurker, but they are not known. > > > >> > > > >> However, this person does have a website and they do sell on eBay > > > >> using at least one or more seller accounts. Worse, I have seen other > > > >> collectors and some dealers leaving good feedback to this dubious > > > >> seller after purchasing specimens that may be in question now. Some > > > >> of these people I saw leaving feedback are List members or persons > > > >> known to List members. > > > >> > > > >> To my knowledge, this person is not an IMCA member. But, this person > > > >> frequently purchases material from List members, known dealers, and > > > >> IMCA members. > > > >> > > > >> I fear and strongly suspect that this person is spreading > > > >> misrepresented material into many collections across the world, thanks > > > >> to eBay and the internet. Some of the people who have purchased > > > >> material from this suspect dealer are good people, people we know, and > > > >> people who should now be concerned that portions of their collections > > > >> may be compromised. > > > >> > > > >> I am currently conferring with a couple of other honest dealers who > > > >> have some knowledge of this person and we will alert the collector > > > >> community when we arrive at a consensus of what exactly is going on, > > > >> how wide-reaching the damage is, and what we can say/do about it to > > > >> prevent further damage. > > > >> > > > >> Stay tuned. > > > >> > > > >> Best regards, > > > >> > > > >> MikeG > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
