Hi Jan,
No problem at all, I just think this is too complicated than most are
willing to realize, including poverty as I have been reminded as well, and
the framework under which the list as a group (we can't single out anyone in
particular as we are in this together) has painted of the locality. hah! as
if these problems of corruption were unique to this little corner of the
world, right.
I had no problem with your post, but its content suggested * to me * a
slight double standard, that is all, nothing personal. Most people on this
list say what they mean in an unadulterated fashion as you already saw and
most of us are all too familiar with.
I would never blame the Aymara for anything, * especially * for not being
themselves. This, by the way, includes not running to the crater and
pushing everyone else out of the way to get their God-given endowment, and
then not feeling envious, etc. of those who did. So please reconsider your
thinking about anything being their fault. I could be wrong, but these are
probably not part of their cultural upbringings, schooled or not, and they
deserve our respect for that. They certainly have mine.
I don't have any qualms with calling a dirty place: dirty, either, and I am
sure there are a long list of reasons that have caused this. As far as the
"lost value" you mention, this is an even more complicated question that
makes my head hurt, my best solution would be to crack open Porter and to
say it looks like I will never have the opportunity to possess this
meteorite.
Porter aside, it reminds me of a Sufi story I heard as a tyke.
Mulla Nasarudin saw a group of men (possibly horsemen or soldiers), he
panicked and found a pit jumped down to hide inside, and worried terribly
what that would do to him. Unfortunately for him, he began shaking, as he
did not escape their notice. They hastily came over, from above the pit one
voice yelled down as he was terrorized, "Sir, what ön earth are you doing
down there? The Mulla answered, That, my friend, is not a simple question.
I am here because you are there ... I wish I could see the text of this
wonderful tale somewhere ...
Best health, and above all WELCOME, and thanks for your perspectives as
well!
And for putting up with my ramblings,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Hattenbach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>; "mexicodoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
Hi Dough, list,
yes, I understand that the list may have got a rather negative impression of
Peru due to these very ugly experience Mike and his colleagues had to
encounter. I live in Peru and visited Desaguadero and Carancas myself and
had to make some bad experience too with people trying to rip me off there.
It was not quite as dangerous as it was for Mike because I kept myself in
the background. After reading Mikes report, I was glad I did so. And, like
it or not, Desaguadero *is* a filthy place.
Nevertheless, remember Mikes report, it was not the townspeople of Carancas
he had his problems with. It was the corrupt police of Desaguadero - and
corruption really is perhaps the biggest problem of this country. The people
of Carancas were trying the best they could from this unique incident, who
could blame them for that?
Maybe some folks in Desaquadero are now beginning to realize what
opportunity they missed. There was a stone with a value more than gold
falling from the sky, and who got it? Some US-Americans, some guys from
Bolivia and a German! But that is their own fault. Why couldn't the same
people who did what they could to get as much money out of me (I had a nice
little fight in spanish - words only) use their energy to get that stones
that were lying around for a week just before their noses, and make money
out of them? Call it lack of education or whatever, but it is sad to say: if
no strangers would have gone there, most of the meteorites may have just
been thrown away! The news was in the media in Peru for days, and they do
have TV, radio, internet and newspapers and are able to use it, if they
like. Most people here did know what happened.
It is a shame what happened to Mike, and it is a even bigger shame for Peru
what is happening to the (presumed) main mass, but there is still no reason
to insult the people of this town or country in general. It's rather
something to think about what is going wrong in this world.
BTW: I am new to this list and I appeciate the interresting information and
opinions I found here! Thanks a lot for that!
Best regards,
Jan
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "mexicodoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gesendet: 19.10.07 20:37:20
An: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
Hi David, Bob and Jan, List,
David - There has been a cold war going on down there to define who has
rights to market alcoholic drinks called "Pisco" (If you don't think this
is
important - very seriously-, think again!!!), and the fight for control
portions of the sea between Peru and Chile is still ablating. It isn't
the
village that is of interest. It is the fight for land and sea, and
national
pride. The land of the Desaguadero River where the fall is, is near the
outlet to the ocean that Chile appropriated in war victory against
Bolivia/Peru and I suspect that unofficial military activities are common
in
that zone, as well as a state of alert on both sides, and also that there
is
an underlying fear from this. As outsiders from this conflict, the best
we
can imagine...
Jan - As you say (most of us including you could) think before we post,
too,
though I don't object to your post either. The very few prior comments
you
have made seem very educated, so I really wonder, why hadn't you said
anything throughout the barrage of bashing of people, corruption and the
"filth" there, and now not expect that this impression is prevalent and
accepted by a lot of list members? This is an exotic and majestic area to
visit, though lacking in hygene by the cultural standards of many
outsiders.
The list has been fixated on the negative and a meteoric attention span.
Why don't you ask what Bob Haag about his recent vacation in the wonderful
area, he probably has seen enough in his life to give a different
perspective on their hygene and culture.
Bob W. - David off the list? Eighty-six that possee!
Best wishes and health,
Doug
Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother.
See
those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there
when
you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas
arguing
over who owns the dog they live on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Weir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bob WALKER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
> If Art removes me I'll be happy to leave. It's people like you who make
> me
> vomit all over this "LIST". And don't ever visit my website which
> contains
> a quarter of a million words bringing the most current meteorite
> research
> to those interested, including total morons like you. You are hereby
> forbidden to visit it. I do not want to contribute anything else to this
> LIST or to you, you small-brained idiot. Kiss my ass!
>
> David
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
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