Dave, no problem, I think the attack on you was not
justified, I know that the photo did not show any hint
of orientation, and perhaps more photos would have
been good but a request for more photos or explanation
would have been better. I got a call from Morocco
today at 5 am about a large oriented meteorite, I
yawned and told them to email me photos, oriented and
morrocan-oriented are two very different things. They
now describe everything as oriented. I applaud your
outreach work, I wish I had more time to do some of
those things. The important part of that photo was the
look on that kids face! He was clearly thrilled at
holding a huge meteorite. I never saw a meteorite when
I was a kid.
Michael Farmer
--- Dave Gheesling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike and List,
Mike, thanks for getting this debate -- which
emerged for all of the wrong
reasons -- onto some quality ground. There is
absolutely no doubt that the
term "oriented" is abused and that this is a
problem. It's great to have
watch dogs out there, but rabid and presumptive dogs
are not much help. I'd
be curious to hear what you think about the piece in
question when you see
the images I sent you off line (those on my site
were taken quickly and with
bad lighting, as it's a pain to move that piece
around). There are
certainly degrees of orientation, but -- and this is
important -- a few
seconds of oriented flight is modifying a
pre-existing shape (and these are
obviously not all consistent, thus Lafayette is not
always the result). Had
I known in advance that this would be such a
sensitive matter, I'd have
either changed the caption (again, the photo had
little at all to do with
the stone itself) or included other images to show
orientation. Have a
great day, everybody...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:27 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orientation, the 1000th
re-hash
Come on people, this has been a pet peeve of mine
for
many years. I go on eBay, or I see the Rocks from
Space photos all the time, with meteorites claimed
to
be oriented. Half of these people would not know
what
oriented was if it fell an embedded in their heads!
Dave's stone is nice, not highly oriented, but
oriented with the photos on his website. The photo
in
Rocks from Space showed nothing to suggest
orientation.
So, let's see some examples on eBay right now!
A fine flight-oriented Sikhote-Alin that belongs to
me, you can clearly see the hundreds of flow lines
emanating from the bullet-nose, flowing back, all in
the same direction, which proves the direction of
flight to all but the dimmest of collectors. Notice
how I take the time and pay for the extra photos?
This
shows the attributes I want to show on the stone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140211035108
http://cgi.ebay.com/Oriented-Sikhote-Alin-METEORITE-with-Rollover-Line_W0QQi
temZ180217699381
Take this one for example, small rollover rim, but
not
the slightest hint of orientation, NOT ORIENTED.
Here is an oriented Gao stone, note the nice cone
shape, and the massive rollover lip and bubbles on
the
back to prove it! Lipping alone does not make
orientation. I have see blocky meteorites with a lip
on one side.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350030529345
And then there is this one, not the slightest hint
of
orientation, just a typical rounded complete Gao
stone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIENTED-Gao-Guenie-Meteorite-Burkina-Faso-3-6-Grams_W0Q
QitemZ200203882988
http://cgi.ebay.com/UNCLASSIFIED-Meteorite-Oriented-Individual-84-40g_W0QQit
emZ120214504213
Here is another one, old chondrite, just becuase it
is
rounded, does not make it in any way oriented!
Please
people, this is pitiful.
If you are selling a meteorite, you have the duty to
properly photograph it to present the stone as it
is.
Saying it is oriented, and then being too cheap to
pay
for multiple photographs shows that you do not care
about the piece, do not care about your product, and
are likely lying about the orientation part.
Every time I sell an oriented meteorite on ebay, you
will get 6-15 photos showing all sides, aspects,
flow
lines, lipping, nosecone etc.
Buyer beware, if the seller does not show you these
things, then do you really think you are going to
get
them?
Michael Farmer
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