Sterling wrote:
"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded"
authenticated meteorites. You see, there was
this obscure religious cult that took over and
tried, with great success, to destroy all traces
of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth."
His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H,
I asked if anyone could come up with an example
of an authentic meteorite being found in any
ancient ruins outside the Americas, after
reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This
really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was
just from this exciting type of meteorite
recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern
world too the past, and because I have become
very skeptical of the author of that article
apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source
and others' claims, that meteorites have been
found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if you
can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins
outside the Americas, so now it is officially
independently confirmed at least to me, thank
you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further:
So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in
fact, only North America (please correct me if
you recall something found in any South American
ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...).
Regarding meteorites being found in ancient
ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta,
Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua -
the list seems20to end, unless you add a few
more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US,
this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly
that it feels like I am abysmally missing
something big (No, Willamette was not found in
any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)...
Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia,
Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this
need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean
region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service.
Are the only places meteorites have been found
in ancient ruins, then, in North America,
between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio?
Somehow this is shocking as well as
disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ...
Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is
another unrelated general comment about the
article: this paragraph was really interesting
for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron:
"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that
it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo
irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is
identical. So the only conclusion we can make is
that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo."
I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding
Ocate if he had a chance to look at it?
To Rob's table I have added the ranges from
Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among
other researchers /specimens in testing for the
two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and
Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results
Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the
experimental uncertainties were not listed in
the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's
method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack
just by comparing things holistically rather
than assuming test methodology and specific
samples tested to have reproducible uniformity.
Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma
----- -------------- --------------- ----- -----
Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1
Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1
Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2
***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)***
Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0
***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)***
Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1
Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1
As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5
Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7
W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1
Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1
To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a
transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more
interesting, and greatly more especially, if the
morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has
the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the
Canadian classifiers can share their analytical
notes on material and methods, with Wasson,
Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with
Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly.
Best wishes, Doug
----
-Original Message-----
From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug <mexicod...@aim.com>
Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star
Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know?Â
Â
Â
Sterling K. WebbÂ
--------------------------------------------------------------------Â
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicod...@aim.com>Â
To: <Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Â
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PMÂ
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling starÂ
Â
Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being
found > need editing:Â
Â
"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, asÂ
well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounceÂ
Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,Â
N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca
ruinÂ
near Chihuahua, Mexico."Â
Â
The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a
> world away in Peru ... The author is
referring to the Paquimé pueblo > of the
probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from
the US > southwest), though they may have had a
tad more of Aztec influence. > And the
meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state),
and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih
uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona
which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)Â
Â
Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >
meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by
the article they are > found "all around the
world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, >
Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to
mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.Â
Â
Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >
fragment...Â
Â
"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved hisÂ
collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde ValleyÂ
for the first time in nearly 800 yeaÂ
rs."Â
Â
One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of
Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at
all "on display" on the Native > American
Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that
stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects
being rendered specifically > NOT to be
displayed, I am not sure how this statement
about displaying > could be made in the article
with any accuracy, and suppose the author >
really got carried away trying to say the Camp
Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally
of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!Â
Â
Best wishes,Â
DougÂ
Â
Â
-----Original Mess
age-----Â
From: Michael Groetz <mpg4...@gmail.com>Â
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Â
Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pmÂ
Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling starÂ
Â
Â
Â
http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230Â
Â
The tale of a falling starÂ
By Steve Ayers, Staff ReporterÂ
Â
Tuesday, June 09, 2009Â
Â
CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.Â
Â
A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughoutÂ
Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for
moneyÂ
and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun
andÂ
profit.Â
Â
In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A PhoenixÂ
resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,Â
and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley wouldÂ
surrenÂ
der its ancient treasures.Â
Â
Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of
incomeÂ
for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.Â
Â
For this tri
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