For Bo, here is something i found that might illustrate some of the
parallels to what pirsig has in the MOQ and some of the physics research of
david bohm
His textbook on quantum theory, written while still at Princeton, became a
classic for its clarity, always relying on physical argument and
philosophical principles to explain the quantum world, rather than falling
back on abstract mathematical formulae. Later, at Bristol University in
England, Bohm and his student Yakir Aharonov demonstrated a new and
important way in which the quantum world transcends that of classical
mechanics. The two physicists showed that an electron is affected by the
presence of an electrical field even when, according to classical physics,
it is totally shielded from that field. This effect, they argued, is central
to quantum mechanics, implying that even quite distant objects can affect
quantum processes. These nonlocal correlations have nothing to do with
traditional forms of interaction (such as by fields or the exchange of
particles); rather, they demand new concepts that go beyond the ideas of
separation and distance. The prestigious scientific journal Nature
editorialized that Aharanov and Bohm's work was worthy of a Nobel prize.
Bohm had also reformulated the paradox proposed by Einstein, Boris Podolsky,
and Nathan Rosen (EPR) that attempted to retain "independent elements of
reality" within the quantum world. In Bohm's version the meaning of this
paradox became clearer and helped blaze the trail for what would later
become an experimental test.
This experimental test was proposed by physicist John Bell in his famous
theorem. But Bell himself had been led to develop this theorem after
encountering Bohm's hidden variables version of quantum theory-in Bohm's
1952 papers, Bell later said, he had seen "the impossible done." Throughout
the later decades of his life, Bohm sought a new order in physics. He
proposed that the reality we see about us (the explicate order) is no more
than the surface appearance of something far deeper (the implicate order).
According to Bohm, the ground of the cosmos is not elementary particles but
pure process, a flowing movement of the whole. Within this implicate order,
Bohm believed, one could resolve the Cartesian split between mind and
matter, or between brain and consciousness.
Bohm's notion of an implicate order extended his reputation outside the
bounds of physics and drew the interest of writers, artists, psychologists,
and philosophers. It was to this audience that Bohm directed much of his
later work, lecturing and writing on the essential wholeness of nature and
experience, deploring the fragmentation of our modern world, discussing the
nature of creativity, and exploring the nature of thought and the
structuring processes of the psyche.
So deeply have his ideas permeated the general culture that they are
becoming part of the shared way we look at the world. Their influence can be
found in areas as diverse as education, psychology, art, and literary
criticism, appearing even in novels. Bohm became something of a guru to
those seeking renewal through education and psychotherapy, or seeking to
build new communities or understand the internal dynamics of society.
In spite of his considerable scientific reputation, Bohm did not always see
eye to eye with his contemporaries. The major controversy of his life lay in
his rejection of the conventional interpretation of quantum theory. After
his contact with Einstein, Bohm proposed an alternative theory in which
electrons are guided along paths by what he called the quantum potential.
This "hidden variable" theory so offended the scientific establishment that
it was met with not only rejection but sheer silence, which gave Bohm
considerable pain. Although he went on to develop the theory further, moving
away from strict determinism into something far more subtle, his work
remained tainted as that of a scientific maverick .
Throughout the 1970s and 1980s Bohm went ever deeper into the quantum
theory, seeking to develop a theory of prespace that would make connections
to Einstein's relativity. It was during this period that Bohm moved away
from his earlier materialistic position. Attempting to remove the
distinction between mind and matter; he proposed that information, like
matter and energy, is one of the basic principles of nature; it is not a
subjective assessment but an objective activity in the world. The more
broadly his ideas ranged, however, the more rigid and hidebound the
scientific community became.
At the end of his life, Bohm remained a scientific rebel. He rejected the
current fashion of seeking closure in some "grand unified theory," in favor
of a vision of nature's inexhaustibility, of a world of infinite levels.
Bohm's world was holistic, as holistic as the unanalyzable interconnections
of the quantum or his unified vision of matter and mind. Holism extended, he
believed, into human psychology and society itself. He dreamed of developing
a group mind, and spent his last years organizing dialogue circles in its
pursuit.
Bohm lived for the transcendental; his dreams were of the light that
penetrates. From early childhood he learned to escape into the world of the
mind and the imagination. Yet his life was accompanied by great personal
pain and periods of crippling depression. He never achieved wholeness in his
own personal life, and the fruits of that life, which are still with us,
were gained only at great sacrifice.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 22 June 2001 20:23
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: MD A fifth quality level?
Stephen Devlin, Christopher Galtenberg, Matt the Amazing...etc,
and Marco .
STEPHEN wrote:
> The line " a groping 5th level" caught my interest and i wanted to
> know if the moq is aware of research into the brain which has some
> parallels with moq on some levels
Thanks for noticing my messages, but I'm afraid you must tell us
how you see the works of Elaine Beauport or David Bohm in
relation to the Quality Metaphysics, there are only Chiefs around
here - no Indians (no readers just writers:-). Brain research does
certainly have bearing on the MoQ ...everything has, the question
is whether Beauport's intellect term parallels the "Static Intellectual
Level" of the Metaphysics of Quality? I fear not.
Re brain research my favourite in this field is the Penfield
experiments (probing exposed brain evoked memories) which led to
Benjamin Libet's findings. These are really weird.
A possible 5th level it was once a raging topic, my take on that is
that the Quality idea itself is a groping step to free evolution from
Intellect's rigors, while the mainstream understanding is that the
MoQ is an intellectual pattern that will replace the dominating SOM
pattern. This need not be as opposing as it sounds, but it will take
to long to unweil the different argument, but if interested mail me..
------------------------------
MATT THE ...etc wrote among many interesting things in his
selfbiography:
>The most engimatic of those listed, to me, is Nietzsche. An amazing
>philosopher. A real asshole sometimes and (I would say) wrong about a
>lot of stuff, but I admire his genius and the insights he had and the
>biographical story surrounding all of it.
I agree about Nietzsche, in my opinion he was on to something
Quality-like - perhaps that was what broke him and from what he
did not recover, but he was working on a manuscript called "An
Attempt at Revaluation of all Values"! That sounds familiar?
MARCO ended his excellent post thus:
> But you agree that intellect is not still dominating the whole world.
> And the beginning of dominance in the west is (according to Pirsig)
> less than 100 years ago. Moreover, as every level is blind to the
> upper levels, how can we "see" a possible 5th level? More likely, I'd
> say that it's time to extinguish the SOM dinosaur. The reptiles curve
> is over.
Yes, the fact that Intellect doesn't dominate all cultures is an
important point, its age (emergence) however depends on how we
define it, but the MoQ postulates that each level starts as a pattern
of the former level so its birth is far far back. Intellect does not
dominate all cultures, but is striving to do so (the West vs Islam
conflict for instance) . About the levels being blind to the upper,
that's correct, but a possible movement beyond Intellect will
necessarily build on Intellect - an "outlandish" intellectual pattern
will be the "seed crystal". And "we" who are inorganic, biological,
social and intellectual will necessarily be carriers of a 5th level
also. It is NOT intellect who sees this. Intelllect isn't the end of
evolution.
Bo
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