Re: Alain Bench 2007-03-26 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Sunday, March 25, 2007 at 23:12:59 +0200, Christoph Berg wrote: > > > I wonder if $locale shouldn't default to $LC_TIME > > I fully agree, that would be a good thing, a step in the good > direction. Naturally users of a mailer expect it to be localized > following their current locale.
Full ack. > But changing default $locale value or > behaviour could break existing muttrcs (those which removed ! from > $*_format and count on default $locale to get English time). I had never used $date_format before (at least not in index_format) so I wasn't sure about which parts are all affected. It seems we have 3 different locales: 1) the system's/LANG/LC_* 2) $locale 3) C 3 can probably be treated as 1. The main use for 2 on systems supporting LANG/LC_* seems to be able to use language-specific dates in attributions. $locale would change the language there, but not the charset. <pondering> Could we make these 2 parts independent? </p> Otoh, $locale should not affect the index display when used in that way. > I can imagine 2 ways to do it: > > -a) Initialise $locale to current locale. > > -b) Initialise $locale to "", and make this get the current locale > (instead of skipping setlocale()). > > (b) would have the advantage to follow runtime environment changes > (for those using the setenv patch). I'd vote for that. I'm not sure what the technical difference here is. "" (unset) seems to have the advantage that "if unset, $LANG will be used" is a bit more concise than "this variable is initialized to $LANG on mutt startup". (Modulo environment changes, the effect is probably the same.) > > the default date_format does already start with a ! to disable > > localized timestamps there, and index_format/attribution could be > > changed as well. > > Add ! everywhere to reget English by default? Humm... OK, today is > only a first step, right? Anyway this would also break some existing > muttrcs (those which set $locale and count on default $index_format to > get localized time). I'm more concerned about the defaults for users not having a muttrc. Those who have one will probably already have tweaked there *_format variables to the right thing. As we can probably expect most users to write mail in their own language, localized defaults would be a good thing. For the others, adding a handful of ! seems easier than manually setting $locale for the majority. > Conclusion: I'm for it, despite the little problems. > > > Note: See related upstream wish/1158 "persistent locale setting" for > another aspect of the problem, and for a patch touching the same places > as alternative (b) above. On a broader scale, on which kinds of systems do we really need $charset and $locale inside mutt? Can't we just expect them to set LC_*? If so, we could modify $locale such that it is only used for sending mail and leave other localization (mainly dates displayed in the index) at the current locale. $charset could probably be dropped completely. (Or as a "middle" solution, let $charset be as it is, i.e. overriding LC_CTYPE, and let $locale only affect sent mail. Those users noticing the difference will be able to configure their system locales correctly.) The patch in mutt/1158 implements that (with an extra : modifier), though I think modified $locale semantics would be easier to understand. Christoph -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.df7cb.de/
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