Especially since we all started bikeshedding immediately :) http://green.bikeshed.org/
On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Andrew S. Baker <asbz...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the follow-up, Patrick > > > > > > *ASB > **http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker* <http://xeeme.com/AndrewBaker>* > **Providing Virtual CIO Services (IT Operations & Information Security) > for the SMB market…*** > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Patrick Hasenjager <phasenja...@kcumb.edu > > wrote: > >> I was able to resolve my original problem, which was no being able to add >> file shares to a clustered "file server." The thread linked here solved >> the problem for me. >> >> >> http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserver8gen/thread/9807a799-bea3-46ad-92a5-732779135f98 >> >> >>> On 12/6/2012 at 11:03 AM, Steven Peck <sep...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> While I like your summary for the most part, evidently my experience with >> MS Clusters while admittedly dated, windows2003 era mostly Exchange and >> SQL, we didn't experience them as fragile. Complex yes, but most issues >> were the result of shooting ourselves in the foot rather then the cluster >> technology itself. With the Best Practice Analyzers this is easier to avoid >> now. >> But we're back to what is meant/desired goal of the original post. >> 'VMware clusters' provide for resilience and reduced downtime. If hardware >> fails, all guests on that node are dead. True, the remaining live nodes >> will usually bring them up quickly but they are still dead until then and >> if there were dependencies, etc. the various services may still need manual >> intervention. >> So, if you need a service availability then you need to look at your SLA >> and match them with the various options.. >> So, this thread started with one thing and then wandered afar into >> various technologies.... What needs to be solved? >> >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Ken Cornetet <ken.corne...@kimball.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> Patrick, I am sorry if I came across as attacking your choices. My >> intention was to steer you toward a path that will lead to a happier future >> for you. >> >> The purpose of clustering is to protect against downtime in case >> something fails, or is intentionally taken down for preventative >> maintenance. >> >> So here are some "somethings" that might happen: >> >> 1. Hardware failure. Both MS and VMWare clustering will protect against >> this. >> >> 2. OS failure - the OS bluescreens. Both MS and VMWare protect against >> this. VMWare detects missing vmware tools heartbeats and migrates the >> server. >> >> 3. The application service crashes (stops). You don't need clustering to >> protect against this, you set the service to auto-restart. >> >> 4. The application service gets lost in space and stops working (but is >> still running). Neither MS or VMWare can protect against this without you >> hitching on some sort of monitoring system. >> >> 5. Patching or other PM. This is where MS clustering can *theoretically* >> reduce (not eliminate) downtime if you have an active/passive cluster. In >> an active/passive cluster, you patch the passive system, reboot, fail over >> to it, then patch and reboot the original active server. However, there is >> still down time as the service is stopped on one node and restarted on the >> other. The only thing that MS clustering eliminates is the time of the >> server reboot. In VMWare, virtuals boot so fast that this only saves you >> less than a minute. >> >> MS clusters have some disadvantages: >> >> 1. Most every service that you run clustered has limitations and caveats >> when running clustered. >> 2. Backing up the data requires a cluster aware backup agent. >> 3. You application settings have to be replicated between nodes - usually >> manually. This can lead to problems when they aren't in sync. >> 4. MS clusters are "fragile". In the old days (windows 2000) clusters >> would go toes up for little or no reason and you'd have to spend hours >> tweaking registry settings and disk signatures to get it back up. This >> improved vastly with Server 2003 - clusters stop failing for no reason, but >> even at Server 2008 R2, clusters are a pain to do disaster recovery with. >> >> In contrast, VMWare clusters just work, and work seamlessly. You don't >> need to take anything special into account on your protected virtuals. >> Normal application settings, normal backups, etc. There is no extra >> complexity to manage. >> >> Admittedly, I've not looked at Server 2012's clustering because we've >> been migrating away from MS clusters. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick Hasenjager [mailto:phasenja...@kcumb.edu] >> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:16 AM >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> Subject: RE: File Services Clustering in Server 2012 >> >> If that is not the purpose of failover clustering, what would your >> definition be? Maybe I need to go another route to resolve this, as it >> seems that all people want to do is attack the choices we have made for our >> institution. >> >> >>> Ken Cornetet <ken.corne...@kimball.com> 12/6/2012 7:46 AM >>> >> Maybe I'm missing something. What it is you hope to protect against? I >> not sure what you mean by "services" clustering. Are you thinking that if >> somehow the server service gets hosed on one node of the cluster that MS >> clustering will switch over to the other node? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick Hasenjager [mailto:phasenja...@kcumb.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:17 PM >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> Subject: RE: File Services Clustering in Server 2012 >> >> We want "services" clustering in addition to the hardware clustering >> already in our ESXi environment. >> >> >>> Ken Cornetet <ken.corne...@kimball.com> 12/5/2012 4:03 PM >>> >> Why in the world would you use a Microsoft cluster when you have the >> vastly superior and easier ESX clustering to provide failover? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick Hasenjager [mailto:phasenja...@kcumb.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:33 PM >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> Subject: File Services Clustering in Server 2012 >> >> We are just getting into clustering services, now that we have been >> allowed to purchase a SAN (we have only been asking for more years than I >> can count!). I created a failover cluster in Server 2012 Standard and >> attached 4 nodes to it (all virtuals with VMware ESXi 5.1 - the same >> problem exists whether 1 node is connected or up to all 4). They are >> connected to common LUNs on a NetApp appliance. >> >> Yesterday, everything went to hell. It started off that I could not >> access one of the file shares and then two... then all 4 that we had >> configured. Because this system was not yet being utilized for anyone other >> than myself, I decided to just recreate it. Now that I have done that, I >> cannot configure any file shares. >> >> When I click the "Add File Share" to the cluster role (File Server), the >> "volumes" is blank and I cannot use the browse button. I can type a path, >> but it states that it is not valid for the particular server. According to >> the console, everything is "Running" and "Online." I also cannot access the >> administrative share for the drive which is attached to the role. >> >> I am at a complete loss for ideas and Internet searches have turned up >> absolutely nothing regarding the problem I am having. I'm sure I am missing >> something simple, but cannot come up with what that is. Can anyone assist >> me? Feel free to contact me off-list if it is more convenient. >> >> >> >> PATRICK HASENJAGER | Network Administrator Kansas City University of >> Medicine and Biosciences | Information Technology phone 816.654.7712 >> ( tel:816.654.7712) | fax 816.654.7701 >> ( tel:816.654.7701) email phasenja...@kcumb.edu | www.kcumb.edu >> >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ < >> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ < >> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ < >> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ < >> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ < >> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ >> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
