David, Your observation about Darius the Mede, intriques me. Are you aware that Herodotus at times "slips" and calls Persians "MEDES" ? Are you aware that the Romans at times called the Parthians "MEDES" as well ? Did you know that Cyrus according to Herodotus was the grandson of Astyages, the last king of the Medes, and thus all the Persian kings, claiming descent from Cyrus, could claim "Median blood" ? The Greek playwright Aeschylus (5th century BCE) also refers to the Persians as MEDES. So, if Greeks of the 5th century BCE COMMONLY referred to Persians as MEDES, why wouldn't Daniel in the 2nd century BCE, living in a Greek influenced world, be correct in calling Darius a Mede ?
Has anyone ever been intriqued by Daniel's 49 weeks of years (490 years), which if originating with Jeremiah's declaration of a restoration after 70 yrs in 587 BCE, dates Daniel's vision as being fulfilled in 97 BCE, thus suggesting this may have been when Daniel was written or redacted ? By this date, the Hasmoneans have successfully "restored" Israel's ancient border from Dan to Beersheba. Might this not be construed as a type of blessing from God ? Daniel wanted to know when the persecutor, Antiochus IV's Greeks would become the "Persecuted" by God. Under the Hasmoneans, ca. 97 BCE it is the Greeks who are being "persecuted" and forced to become Jews or be sold into slavery. "Pay-back" time has arrived ! A date of 97 BCE for Daniel, fits nicely, with the Nabonindus story found amongst the DSS, and his absence in the wilderness, which, as you have noted, appears to have been transferred to Nebuchdrezzar by Daniel's author. Those interested in the Mede/Persian connection may like to access the following url http://www.bibleorigins.net/Japhethmadai.html All the best, Walter ----- Original Message ----- From: David C. Hindley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 6:25 AM Subject: RE: orion-list Daniel > Russell, > > Thanks again for the bibliography, and I certainly intend to follow up > on it. I agree that Sabbatical years can be important markers in > Jewish historical narratives. > > >>Daniel's "Darius the Mede" is of course problematic historically and > should be taken into account in evaluating Daniel's historical > accuracy; as well as the transference of certain legends regarding > Nabonidus (and his period of abdication of Babylonian rule) to > Nebuchadnezzar. I don't really have a handle on Daniel's historical > knowledge or premises - who does? - but it's an important problem. > The Qumran Danielic texts are relevant to the evolving corpus of > Daniel stories, but haven't led to a convincing solution.<< > > Daniel does pose problems that are not found even in Ezra-Nehemiah. > E-N may be jumbled, but much of its order can be reconstructed and at > least events are dated in ways that allow them to be interpreted in > some sort of realistic historical framework. It is Daniel's wild > transformations of legends and the unhistorical personages such as > Darius the Mede that intrigue me. Somewhere in all that mess I sense > fragments of a historical past that the final editor of Daniel did not > want to remember. Assyria had fallen to the Medes, their former vassal > and receptacle of conquered peoples, including Israelites, under > Cyxares since about 606 BCE. Cyrus, who was already king of Persia > since 560/559 BCE, conquered Media in 550. > > I suspect that his policies of repatriation of exiled peoples, which > played a part in shaping the mix of peoples that became associated > with Yahud, included descendants of Israelites, and the final editor > of Daniel was not willing to admit this. And so the entire experience > of Israelites under the Medes is compressed into a single fictional > "Darius the Mede," as if he ruled over Jews (which he would not, if we > accept the implied self-definition of "Jew" in Daniel). To him, "Jew" > (originally a designation of all residents of Yahud) had taken on a > meaning that was greater than the sum of its parts, and now superceded > those parts. > > Similarly, I see Ezra-Nehemiah as an even later attempt (during or > after the reign of John Hyrcanus I) to distance Jews (i.e., Judeans) > even further from any association they may have once had with > Israelite-style Yahwists such as those who also settled in Samaria. > Hyrcanus destroyed their rival temple and probably prompted the > creation of the Samaritan sect, which mysteriously uses the Jewish Law > as though the Judahites and Samaritan Yahwists once shared a common > religious identity. In E-N, the "Judahite" returnees are portrayed as > firmly rejecting the Yahwism (and even genealogy) of the Samarian > Yahwists, and a fictional "Ezra" is created out of traditions about > Zerubabbel (institution of the feast of Booths) and Joshua (where they > got Ezra's "genealogy") in order to press the cause of complete > separation of the peoples of Judah and Samaria and to lay absolute > claim to the Law as theirs alone. > > The main difference is that E-N was much more carefully and > deliberately crafted than Daniel, and this suggests to me that Daniel > was edited in a time when higher emotions were present, such as the > time of the persecution of Antiochus and the resulting political and > religious revolution. E-N was, in this way of looking at things, a > refinement of nationalistic feelings in response to Hyrcanus I forcing > the Syrians to accept him as a client king rather than as a mere > governor. It seems to me that the Qumran literature identifies more > with the reinvention of what it meant to be a Jew that occurred in the > time of the Maccabees than with the later fine-tuning that > crystallized after the establishment of the Jewish nation state. Hence > the variety of Danielic and related traditions versus the relative > lack of same when it comes to Ezra-Nehemiah-like materials. > > Respectfully, > > Dave Hindley > Cleveland, Ohio, USA For private reply, e-mail to "Walter Mattfeld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: "unsubscribe Orion." Archives are on the Orion Web site, http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il. (PLEASE REMOVE THIS TRAILER BEFORE REPLYING TO THE MESSAGE)
