well, i play a lot in an orchestra. (doublebass) and i can assure you it’s a problem you don’t get used to. (and that is not just me) sure you can adapt to the situation but it is not ideal. let a pipe organ player play with a conductor and orchestra and the fun begins :-) it works but it needs a lot of practice and constant "forward-conducting” from the conductor. i also play a lot with an orchestra that focuses on film-music. basically the movie is going on a screen and we play the filmmusic live to it. the conductor (ludwig wicki) has a small screen with the movie and a click on his notestand, and it’s his job to get the orchestra in sync with the movie. he always has to conduct way before the click to even get close to the right spot. so you could say the latency is even worse for the conductor! also i yet have to find an orchestra that plays highly rhythmically fast stuff in sync :-) it’s just a different way of making music. my education is that of a jazz-bassplayer and i had to get into the orchestra “groove” (or the lack of it), before i could understand why they play so non-precise rhythms :-) but it is the only way to stay in sync with each-other and the orchestra.
try a symphonic orchestra with a rock-drummer :-) he will get crazy. and to the latencies inherent in wooden instruments: on the doublebass (which many consider as the wooden instrument with the largest latency) the situation is complex. as a player you feel the strings and you have immediate response when you bow or pluck them. so there is no latency for your body. the tone that you hear as a player by the instrument is also there very fast (mostly the attack) but the tone that people here in the audience comes in much later (mostly not the attack) and depends on frequency and volume and if the bass is plucked or bowed. it’s a “problem” with digital instruments or effects when the body experience is non existant and you have to rely solely on your ears. imho this makes a huge difference. cheers simon so i think we should try to make latencies as small as possible, since it helps a lot :-) On 16 Mar 2014, at 02:36, Simon Wise <simonzw...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 15/03/14 23:03, Dan Wilcox wrote: >> I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency for >> years. How is 10-15 ms not "real time"? It's not even really perceivable >> unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack& decay stuff. At least as >> far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D >> >> Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian UDOO >> image next. That might give us some room. > > Musicians in orchestras have been playing with, dealing with, much longer > latencies for centuries. An orchestra cannot all be within a metre or so of > each other, they are 10s of metres apart, and that is on top of the different > set of differences in distance to the audience. In a pit in an opera or > ballet it gets much worse. Any modern PA adds substantial latencies to > achieve a good sound in the audience, and mostly use mics and foldback in > other kinds of performances, and make the musicians life easier by avoiding > the natural latency issues of an acoustic performance. > > Organ players have dealt with huge latencies for as long as there have been > big pipe organs. Percussionists using real instruments don't get the attack > from their instruments till well after they initiate the note by starting to > move their stick toward the cymbal. > > Wood and metal instruments all have considerable latencies, some much more > than others, it is all part of playing that particular instrument. Electric > guitar players rely on the latency between amp and pickup (this time only a > few milliseconds) for their sound. > > Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of > playing the instrument you are using. > > > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
