Chiming in after long-time hibernation. The strange co-incidence is that while you penners are discussing PoMo/marxism, the same struggle is developing here in Norway around the editorial politics of Europe's only marxist/revolutionary daily newspaper, KLASSEKAMPEN (="class struggle"). The cultural affairs pages in that paper are turning PoMo after the hiring of a new editor again hiring in his chummies from the post-something literary circles. We are getting nebulous, loooong-winded, more or less incomprehensible tirades, with name-dropping (Kristeva, Lacan, Focault, Derrida, Blanchot, etc. etc.) and sentences/terms that the writers MUST KNOW are incomprehensible even to the readership of Klassekampen, who in all fairness must be said to be quite literate. The contents are very much about decadence, the death of reason, aesthetics of violence, melancholy, and the "problems" of the cultural so-called avant-garde in a world where every possible break of conventions already has been tried (yawn). Based on Norwegian experience, It seems obvious to me that our PoMo gang has one important unmentionable motive for what they do, the trivial and well-known academic motive of showing off. The H.C. Andersen story about "The Emperor's New Clothes" very often comes to mind. So far, a biased report from a simple-minded Norwegian marxist. Now to Antonio Callari and/or Elisabeth King-Callari who say(s) > ... And besides, if listening, as a prelude to > organizing, is not hardly new for the left, how come we (i hope there is > still a "we") have done such a miserable job? There is of course an alternative explanation for that, especially in the U.S. but also here in Norway: The total capitalist in-a-thousand-direct-and-more-subtle-ways dominance over the mass media/commercial culture/entertainment/consumerism. This is the Chomsky type of analysis which i subscribe to, and which of course is an alternative to the battery of post-modernist, post-structuralist, deconstructivist theories, which seem to believe that the problem somehow is in language itself, and in people being unable to accept, absorb and identify with the special traits of different subcultures ("discourses"). IMO, you can do ANY sort of advanced analysis and identification with the language, fixations, value-system of a subculture you wish to mobilize - but the fundamental and decisive reason that it is difficult to reach results EVEN when you are good at this (which you of course may be even if you haven't read one word of PoMo theory, this is very much a question of your personality), is the extreme dominance over everybody's minds (our own, too) because of the daily commmercial/ideological/right-wing values bombardment from the media system. I see NO WAY out of this based on a pomo-angled strategy. It is now as before a question of "the ruling thoughts are the thoughts of the rulers", ALSO in oppressed sub-cultures, and EVEN if they consider themselves very "outside" mainstream society (gays, f.inst.). This does not mean i am a complete pessimist. But the road to progress must build more on the Chomsky type of analysis than PoMo. IMHO. And, btw, Chomsky is merciless against f.inst. Lacan and Focault. What have the PoMo adherents to say this interesting conflict? Trond Andresen