> (BTW, contrary to Brad's misrepresentation, there are many socialists -- including
>some on
> pen-l -- who think it's worthwhile to look before leaping, to think about what
>socialism
> might look like.)
>
> -- Jim Devine
Actually, contrary to Jim's assertion here, it is Michael who
has been cutting off every attempt at developing every "look before
your leap" alternative on this list. Everytime anyone suggests a
market socialist critique of existing capitalist or socialist society,
Michael chokes it of, saying "we have been there before" etc. etc.
Quite appart from the fact that we haven't really developed the
basis of the the MS system (or any alternative), we then spend our
time criticising Brad for pointing out the obvious, if inconvenient,
facts of reality.
This list has become increasingly irrelevant to policy debate
because it a) refuses to recognize economic reality and,
b) because it refuses to recognize any alternative economic
systems/institutions to the traditional orthodox marxist core.
It is impossible to have any movement without a forward vision. "A
man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
There is no revolution without an a utopia. If I do not have a vision
of what is possible, I will give up fighting for reform.
I do not understand Louis and his campaign against utopias, any
vision of what might be. Nor do I understand Michael and his
campaign to eliminate any discussion of alternatives of what might
be (i.e. of any alternative utopias.)
Unfortuanately, this list has an ideological bent that wants to
eliminate discussion both from the right, like that emenating from
Brad which supports the capitalist market, and from the left, those
of us who support a market socialist solution.
