Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? - Lou P. and Mr. Green

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In a message dated 7/28/2004 12:13:45 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am simply interested in the proponents of self determination . . . Lou P . . . and Mr. Green and whether they have any material on their support of Regional autonomy for the Southwest in respects to Mexico and the Chicano.   The sincerity of ones view is made manifest by their attitude toward the brethren in their own country.   How does this self determination formula apply to the American Union in 2004. There are more African Americans in and around metropolitan Detroit than there are Chechens and the Nation of Islam was birthed in Detroit. Do you gentlemen support and advocate for the right of self determination of these real people . . . up to and including the formation of an independent state?   Just curious.   What is it going to be gentlemen. Dictatorship of the African American proletariat in an independent state system for African Americans? Dictatorship of the Mexican proletariat in an independent state system for Mexicans/Chicano and or the children of Atzlan? Dictatorship of the Indian proletariat in an independent state system for Indians?     Pardon . . .  the so-called national movements are by definition above classes. Now African Americans are not of course Jamaicans or simply black people. Without question the African American is oppressed and an authentic national question. The African American people have their own economic, social and political organizations and have always had them going back to the Negro Peoples Convention Movement. They are most certainly incarcerated on a scale without equal in American history.     Now Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky did not make slaves out of the African American or lynch them or segregate them for almost 90 years . . . but white people in America. Now Stalin or Putin ain't did nothing to me and mine and my parents, their parents and their parents parents . . . white people in America been real ugly and they are the ones that continue to enforce the second class citizenship.   Minister Louis ain't did nothing to me or to white people in America. And he has a significant organization that does not require approval from white people or anyone else. Do you gentlemen advocate for self determination of African American up to and including formation of an independent state? Or is this something reserved for basically white people in America?   Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky did not kill the Indians and Mexicans . . . but white people in America.  What about Jews? There are Jews in America and they seem to qualify as oppressed . . . although the body of the African American intellectual elite does not subscribe to this view and not simply the Nation of Islam. It is a tricky game trying to speak for or advocate for others.   What of Atzlan? What about the white people in the deep South who are not Yankees? Separate state and self determination? It is infinitely more of them than Chechens. There are more black teenagers than Chechens.     Give me a break. These so called national movement  . . . I also have Yugoslavia in mind . . . are utterly reactionary movements of and led by the bourgeoisie and none of them even talk about improving the life of the proletariat as proletariat. Minister Louis helps more black proletarians and advocates an economic program for them . . . than the reactionaries in Chechnya and the Ukraine.   Melvin P