On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Eliot, > > Lazy is not a word I would use - it *is* a lot of work. I'm closing in on a > 1.3 image. Once it's up (this includes a Seaside 2.8->3.0 move), I'll try > alien callbacks w/ GSL. It won't happen overnight, but it will be nice to be > able to define functions in Smalltalk (thinking roots, LM, etc.). > > Perhaps Spock could start out as a facade to make things *appear* unified??
exactly I do not care to know that there are alien and ffi. As a user I want something working and that I can use simply. > > Bill > > > > > From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr > [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda > [eliot.mira...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:27 PM > To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu> > wrote: > Stef, > > Some thoughts: > > (1) I thought Spock would be the unifier. Cool name as a bonus. > > (2) FFI can do callbacks, it's just not wrapped. Andreas described how to > do it, but it's not user friendly. > > (3) I suspect the reason for the two packages is pragmatism, but I can't > speak for those among us who are adept at the vm side of things. Think of me > as an applied mathematician and biomedical engineer. I write nice code, but > have my limits. > > try laziness ;) its all work. I haven't found the time to combine them. > > > (4) a unified approach would be most welcome. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr > [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse > [stephane.duca...@inria.fr] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:13 PM > To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Stéphane Ducasse > > <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> wrote: > > I'm confused. > > Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. > > > > Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added > > support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback > > system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the > > covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already > > there? > > yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load two > packages if this is part of the functionality? > It just add more confusion. > > > Stef > > > > > And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. > > > > Stef > > > > > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > > > > > Gofer it > > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > > > load. > > > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > > > > > Gofer it > > > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > > > package: 'Alien'; > > > load. > > > > > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can > > > subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, > > > and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > > > > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > > > > > best, > > > Esteban > > > > > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K > > >> <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > >> Eliot, > > >> > > >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for > > >> examples? > > >> > > >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See > > >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 > > >> > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda > > >> [eliot.mira...@gmail.com] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM > > >> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K > > >> <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bsch...@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: > > >> Göran, > > >> > > >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to > > >> contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the > > >> wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding > > >> being at the base of thread. > > >> > > >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust > > >> everywhere. > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, > > >> but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > > >> > > >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous > > >> callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate > > >> image-level code but the VM has support and it works. > > >> > > >> > > >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: > > >> pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > >> > > >> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] > > >> on behalf of Göran Krampe [go...@krampe.se<mailto:go...@krampe.se>] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM > > >> To: > > >> pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > >> > > >> Hi guys! > > >> > > >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying > > >> >> off the handle, not me. > > >> >> > > >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. > > >> >> Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts > > >> >> to improve it. > > >> > > > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on > > >> > SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in > > >> > their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users > > >> > of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do > > >> > just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source > > >> > authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software > > >> > and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be > > >> > one way all the time. > > >> > > > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > > >> > > > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > > >> > - any issues you solved > > >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere > > >> > else > > >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that > > >> > you wrote > > >> > > > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than > > >> > what you are doing now. > > >> > > > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to > > >> > the community, we are all using software written by others in the same > > >> > spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > > >> > > > >> > My 2c, > > >> > > >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm > > >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long > > >> before Pharo was even born. ;) > > >> > > >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based > > >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was > > >> trying to insult. > > >> > > >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you > > >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the > > >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't > > >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly > > >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) > > >> > > >> regards, Göran > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> best, > > >> Eliot > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> best, > > >> Eliot > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > best, > > Eliot > > > > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot
