To clarify my position once again: I think the major financiers of both
Communism and Nazism bear a major responsibility for all the crimes that were
committed by their pet projects. Without the financiers who backed the
Bolshevik Revolution, the virus of Communism -- which was a messianic and
genocidal cult beyond compare -- would never have expanded to take over nations
like China. Russian Communists alone -- direct descendants of the Bolsheviks
-- murdered tens of millions of innocent civilians. See especially Robert
Conquest on this topic.
With regard to Jacob Schiff in particular: he engaged in conspicuously hostile
actions against the Russian establishment with a conspicuously Jewish agenda --
obviously Schiff helped incite antisemitism among all those Russians who were
opposed to a political movement -- Communism -- which is easily the most evil
messianic movement ever to come down the pike. Have you read Alexander
Solzhenitsyn on this subject? (Per usual, those who can't debate his research
and well-documented facts try to smear him as an antisemite.)
By the way, Kris Millegan has just smeared you as "a relapsed neo-Nazi" in his
group. You have been consistently anti-Nazi, anti-racist and anti-fascist in
all of your posts, and here yet is more evidence that Millegan is either
mentally ill, a neocon op of some kind, or both. Lifehacker needs to cover a
new topic: how to deal with deranged stalkers on the net.
LeaNder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tiger, not
long ago Sean forwarded the article below. It contains a series of maybe quite
helpful Wiki tools.
Lifehacker Top 10: Top ten Wiki tricks
This one looks the most interesting. I can't access it, maybe you take a look?
My hope is that it makes contributions and contributors more transparent and
easier to see. I was wishing there was such a tool for quite some time now:
6. See Who's Editing What Pages
It's easy to criticize Wiki but much more effective, if you think the article
is biased, to contact the contributors or ask your question in the comments
section. The tool above may help you to find out, who is adding information you
consider biased. If something is unsourced , as you suggest, you can demand
that the author of the passage adds the source. That's a very simpleWiki rule.
The article does not have such a long history and there don't seem to be many
contributors.
I agree with you, it feels far-fetched to indirectly attribute 100 million of
dead to Schiff. That's typically Sean McBride. ;-) For one this number adds the
Chinese disaster. There does not seem to be any indication, he was involved
there too.
I find this deleted early contribution interesting. But it may well have been
deleted since there were no sources for the argument as {fact} seems to
indicate, but I am not a Wiki expert:
"Schiff stood opposed to political, secular [[Zionism]], claimed to identify
with Jews by faith, not by race.{{fact}} However, despite not agreeing fully
with the ideas of [[Theodore Herzl]], and in fact believing that Zionism was
not compatible with American [[citizenship]], he donated to many Jewish
projects in the then-[[British Mandate of Palestine]], including the
[[Technion|Technical Institute of Haifa]]. As the situation for [[Eastern
European Jews]] grew more dire, with the [[Russian Revolution of 1917|Russian
Revolution]], and pogroms in [[Ukraine]], Schiff made more considerable
contributions to the Zionist effort; he even offered to join the Zionist
organization, provided he could publish a statement he had prepared.{{fact}}
This offer was denied, and he never formally joined the Zionist camp."
And yes I agree with you that his action are understandable from a human point
of view. Besides he was free to give or withhold money from whomever he liked.
See this section, deleted now too:
"Over the years, his firm extended loans to many nations, but Schiff made sure
none of thefunds ever went to Russia, which he believed continued to severely
oppress the Jewish people.{{fact}} When the [[Nicholas II of Russia|Tsar
Nicholas II]]'s government fell in [[1917 in history|1917]], Schiff believed
that the oppression of Jews and other peoples in Russia would end. He became
sympathetic with the government of [[Alexander Kerensky]], and formally
repealed the impediments within his firm against lending to Russia. Once the
policies and doctrines of the [[Lenin]] and [[Trotsky]] [[Soviet]]governments
became apparent, Schiff again became bitterly opposed to aiding Russia in any
way.{{fact}"
The big wonder of human existence is that people might mean well but things
develop a drive that wasn't intended. If you think about this too much you have
to stop to act. Anyway this part does not support Sean's argument at all. He
seems to have withhold money once he realized what direction the movement took.
And that makes perfect sense.
Something you could do too, is contact Cohen, Naomi W. [(1999). "Jacob H.
Schiff". Brandeis University Press"] and ask her to read the Wiki article and
tell you what to is completely wrong and why.
-jo
> Wikipedia doesnt cite a single source in the article regarding the
> speculations as to Schiff's motivations. Howeverif Schiff did contribute
> money to overthrow the vicious, Jew-murdering Tsarist dictatorship, that's
> admirable. To consider Schiff to be in any sense a major factor in the
> Bolshevik revolution though would be absurdly simplistic and
> reductionistic--to date, I've only heard that claim from those with an
> overall anti-Semitic agenda.
> The article also points out that Schiff was not an admirer of the Soviet
> regime. I have no reason to doubt that.
