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element and sandboxing ideas</span></a></span> </h1> <p class="darkgray font13"> <span class="sender pipe"><a href="/search?l=public-webapi@w3.org&q=from:%22Jon+Ferraiolo%22" rel="nofollow"><span itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop="name">Jon Ferraiolo</span></span></a></span> <span class="date"><a href="/search?l=public-webapi@w3.org&q=date:20080522" rel="nofollow">Thu, 22 May 2008 08:15:35 -0700</a></span> </p> </div> <div itemprop="articleBody" class="msgBody"> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <pre> FYI - We have had some discussion in and around the topic of better iframes at OpenAjax Alliance:</pre><pre> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.openajax.org/runtime/wiki/Better_IFrames_Better_Sandboxing">http://www.openajax.org/runtime/wiki/Better_IFrames_Better_Sandboxing</a> However, people see shortcomings with all proposals listed on that page. Our hope was that the HTML5 leaders would figure out a good approach, so I am glad to see that Ian has started discussion on this topic. Regarding Martin's comments, I think it is a correct objective to find a bridge between what exists with today's browsers and what we hope will exist in future browsers. The Ajax community usually needs to get the desired result in both legacy browsers and new browsers. If you need to sandbox in today's browsers, what the community tends to use one of two approaches: (1) require that sandboxed components be expressed in a restricted subset of HTML and/or JavaScript, such as Caja or ADSafe or the markup restrictions for portlets, (2) place the sandboxed components into an IFRAME whose domain or subdomain differs from everything else on the page (ie, leveraging the browser same-domain policy to achieve sandboxing). The problem with approach #1 is that some functionality (potentially critical) is disabled and developers have to in effect learn a new language. The problem with approach #2 is that isolation is an all-or-nothing proposition and there are shortcomings with IFRAMEs, such as lack of automatic content sizing. Ian's proposal below addresses these IFRAME shortcomings directly, which is great. If I had time to think extensively about this issue (which I don't), I would attempt to craft a proposal that used an approach where an Ajax library performed the mapping between what exists today (i.e., IFRAME) and what would exist in the future, where Ajax libraries could be eliminated once older browsers were put out of commission. My initial thought would be to put a 'sandbox' attribute on a DIV rather than on an IFRAME. That way, you end up with more powerful sandboxing, along the lines of what Doug Crockford proposed with his <module> tag. Newer browsers would deliver the sandboxing features that Ian is proposing below. For older browsers, someone could author an Ajax library that looked for DIV elements with a 'sandbox' attribute, and under the hood transformed the DOM such that it achieved sandboxing via IFRAMEs and implements the flexibility that Ian describes in his proposal via typical ugly Ajax hacks, such as passing messages via postMessage (or the even uglier fragment identifer approach). Jon Martin Atkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED] n.co.uk> To Sent by: Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> public-webapi-req cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] whatwg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, HTMLWG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, public-webapi@w3.org 05/22/08 05:20 AM Subject Re: The <iframe> element and sandboxing ideas Ian Hickson wrote: > Summary: > > * I've added a sandbox="" attribute to <iframe>, which by default > disables a number of features and takes a space-separated list of > features to re-enable: > [snip list] Unless I'm missing something, this attribute is useless in practice because legacy browsers will not impose the restrictions. This means that as long as legacy browsers exist (i.e. forever) server-side filtering must still be employed to duplicate the effects of the sandbox. One alternative would be to use a different element name so that fallback content can be provided for legacy browsers. In the short term, this is likely to be something like this: <sandbox src="/comments/blah"> <iframe src="/comments/blah?do-security-filtering=1"></iframe> </sandbox> Once a large percentage of browsers support <sandbox> authors can start to be less accommodating with their fallback content, either by filtering out HTML tags entirely (which I'd assume is easier than just filtering out script) or at the extreme just setting the fallback content to be "Your browser is not supported". This comment does not address "seamless", which seems to be orthogonal and can thus be equally applied to both sandbox and iframe as currently specified. </pre><p><tt><<inline: graycol.gif>></tt></p><p><tt><<inline: pic19618.gif>></tt></p><p><tt><<inline: ecblank.gif>></tt></p> </div> <div class="msgButtons margintopdouble"> <ul class="overflow"> <li class="msgButtonItems"><a class="button buttonleft " accesskey="p" href="msg03713.html">Previous message</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="c" href="index.html#03716">View by thread</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="i" href="maillist.html#03716">View by date</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textalignright"><a class="button buttonright " accesskey="n" href="msg03748.html">Next message</a></li> </ul> </div> <a name="tslice"></a> <div class="tSliceList margintopdouble"> <ul class="icons monospace"> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03707.html">The <iframe> element and sandboxing ideas</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Ian Hickson</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03708.html">Re: The <iframe> element and sandboxing ide...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Andrew Fedoniouk</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03713.html">Re: The <iframe> element and sandboxing ide...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Martin Atkins</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email tSliceCur"><span class="subject">Re: The <iframe> element and sandboxing...</span> <span class="sender italic">Jon Ferraiolo</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03748.html">Re: The <iframe> element and sandbo...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Jon Ferraiolo</span></li> </ul></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03717.html">RE: [whatwg] The <iframe> element and s...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Kristof Zelechovski</span></li> </ul></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03718.html">Re: The <iframe> element and sandboxing ide...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Boris Zbarsky</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03719.html">RE: [whatwg] The <iframe> element and s...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Kristof Zelechovski</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03723.html">Re: [whatwg] The <iframe> element a...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Boris Zbarsky</span></li> </ul></li> </ul></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03740.html">Re: [whatwg] The <iframe> element and sandb...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Ojan Vafai</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03809.html">Re: [whatwg] The <iframe> element and sandb...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Jonas Sicking</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03812.html">Re: [whatwg] The <iframe> element and s...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Andrew Fedoniouk</span></li> </ul> </ul> </ul> </div> <div class="overflow msgActions margintopdouble"> <div class="msgReply" > <h2> Reply via email to </h2> <form method="POST" action="/mailto.php"> <input type="hidden" name="subject" value="Re: The <iframe> element and sandboxing ideas"> <input type="hidden" name="msgid" value="OF6FCC49A2.7A5C7403-ON88257451.004E175A-88257451.00523980@us.ibm.com"> <input type="hidden" name="relpath" value="public-webapi@w3.org/msg03716.html"> <input type="submit" value=" Jon Ferraiolo "> </form> </div> </div> </div> <div class="aside" role="complementary"> <div class="logo"> <a href="/"><img src="/logo.png" width=247 height=88 alt="The Mail Archive"></a> </div> <form class="overflow" action="/search" method="get"> <input type="hidden" name="l" value="public-webapi@w3.org"> <label class="hidden" for="q">Search the site</label> <input class="submittext" type="text" id="q" name="q" placeholder="Search public-webapi"> <input class="submitbutton" name="submit" type="image" src="/submit.png" alt="Submit"> </form> <div class="nav margintop" id="nav" role="navigation"> <ul class="icons font16"> <li class="icons-home"><a href="/">The Mail Archive home</a></li> <li class="icons-list"><a href="/public-webapi@w3.org/">public-webapi - 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