so, drop his idea! Kent
On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 16:50 +0200, Sebastian Werner wrote: > Kent Olsson schrieb: > > Another very good suggestion. See, the community lives, if its opinions > > are asked for. > > Yes, the idea is not so bad. But not possible as already explained. I > don't see what's your point here, Kent. Ideas like this were welcome for > months already. > > Sebastian > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Kent > > > > On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 15:23 +0200, Ulrich Schreiner wrote: > >> why not giving the contributors write/update-access to their > >> "contributed/*" directory (or the whole contributed directory)? this can > >> be done with subversion (see the hook-script, --> svnperms.py) , but i > >> don't know if this can be done with [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > >> > >> perhaps the people are more happy if they can change "their" code > >> without asking a person (you?) for updating it in the repository ... > >> > >> Sebastian Werner wrote: > >>> Kent Olsson schrieb: > >>>> Hej Olli! > >>>> > >>>>> i think, sebastian makes a good job - BUT - qooxdoo could be more that > >>>>> it actually is. if there is only one person who is the boss and this > >>>>> person has not as much time as he should have - then it is a > >>>>> disadvantege to qooxdoo. > >>>> This is what it is all about. > >>>> > >>>>> only a view questions: > >>>>> i thought, there should be a datetime - picker - where is it? > >>>> There has been developed an interface to an already existing one. The > >>>> one I have developed I have not released fully yet and the reason is the > >>>> complexity involved with different calendars and localisation. > >>>> > >>>> I will release the localisation classes today and after that it will be > >>>> much easier to implement the rest of the date picker in a Qooxdoo way. > >>>> > >>>>> i thought, there is a Datagrid with horizontal scrolling - where is > >>>>> it? > >>>> I have never heard of. Who is developing it? I would be very happy if > >>>> someone would do that! > >>>> > >>>>> why isn't the split-pane a real part of qooxdoo? > >>>> The burden is on the shoulders of Sebastian. He should look at it but > >>>> nothing has happened during 5 weeks. He has too much to do! > >>> You just need to open the example and play with it. It's buggy > >>> currently. Please try to fix the outstanding bugs first. > >>> > >>>>> what about the progressbars? > >>>> Been two alternatives developed. I think it would be easy to merge or > >>>> choose one of them as a good solution. Still on Sebastian's desk. He has > >>>> not time! > >>> Why should I do this? What's about you? Please talk with each other and > >>> try to build only one from the two existing contribution. If you think > >>> you are done I will be happy to take a look at. > >>> > >>>>> where is the wiki (there was one - but no one is using it) > >>>> It has been proposed, but Sebastian has not even answered the proposal > >>>> from an interested user/developer. When no support, nothing will > >>>> happen... On Sebastian's shoulders too! > >>> I've repeatedly written that we are working on a solution. We don't like > >>> a wiki hosted by a private person. We want an own solution. It will > >>> come. But I really don't know why you are so interested in a wiki. It > >>> will improve the situation. Yes. But there is no reason why not to > >>> contribute to the documentation stuff already. A wiki is just a > >>> different platform. > >>> > >>>>> where is the bugtracker (same as wiki) > >>>> The same as the previous item. > >>>> > >>>>> sebastian alone has not enough power to handle this all (in my > >>>>> oppinion he is doing as much as he can. but he only has 2 arms and > >>>>> only 8-10 hours a day) > >>>> Definitively, and it is very good in a technical manner and service is > >>>> excellent when he is here, but managewise there might be doubts. > >>>> > >>>>> i think it is our part to do as much as we can to help sebastian and > >>>>> his part is to ACCEPT the help. > >>>> That is exactly what has been proposed. > >>>> > >>>>> i had a idea how to make the best out of both world's. my idea > >>>>> combines a "core" - qooxdoo -> sebastian can manage on his own and a > >>>>> "contributed" - qooxdoo we all can participate. if sebastian then > >>>>> decide to move a widget from "contributed" to "core" he can do this > >>>>> and my "magic" (the idea i had) managed this transparent, so that dhe > >>>>> developer using qooxdoo has not to think about. The first alpha of > >>>>> this idea is working without problems and i had send this to sebastian > >>>>> so that he can think about it. > >>>> I am glad to hear that you propose this constructive and necessary > >>>> action. I tried about the same idea with Sebastian before, but it was > >>>> totally rejected. > >>> Could you please explain in detail what exactly do you mean. We have > >>> already a contributed folder. What's the reason why not send patches for > >>> the already existing files? I think it's just sanctimoniously to assert > >>> that the only reason is the current solution for contributions. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Sebastian > >>> > >>>> I like your way of approaching it. It is very good, > >>>> because then there will be a pressure in both directions, on Sebastian > >>>> and the contributors, to present the best solution. I guess that will > >>>> give result. > >>>> > >>>>> i know sebastian has actually no time to answer so i wait til he has. > >>>> I guess that is the reality. > >>>> > >>>>> if sebastian hasn't enough time to contribute the idea - kent (or > >>>>> anybody else outh there) can you write Shell scripts working under > >>>>> cygwin (i can't and this is needed) > >>>> I think I can help this off the blocks and I hope that a few other > >>>> developers will help to get it done. > >>>> > >>>> Kent > >>>> > >>>>> Olli > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Kent Olsson schrieb: > >>>>>> Dear Izaak, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Kent, there was nothing in your complaint for me to even quote. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> It was not a complaint! If you do not want to quote, why do you even > >>>>>> bother commenting? I would appreciate a polite discussion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> You talk about users off-list who have complained, but about > >>>>>>> what? You talk about problems in the last 3-4 months, what were they? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I know about 8 developers given up the project for different reasons > >>>>>> related to what I am trying to improve. I also know of 9 existing users > >>>>>> not really fully satisfied the way the project has been managed so far. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I cite what they said... > >>>>>> 1. not letting people in > >>>>>> 2. not showing respect for their additions > >>>>>> 3. attitude in discussion > >>>>>> 4. misunderstandings not cleared out > >>>>>> 5. difficult to contribute > >>>>>> 6. do not feel welcome to contribute > >>>>>> 7. long response times > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> The question: > >>>>>>> Is qooxdoo's development stunted by Sebastian's tight control? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, definitively. That is the whole issue. If a project is a one-man > >>>>>> show the risk is extremely high that it will fail. Look at the last 2 > >>>>>> weeks. He has been busy with other things. What happens if serious > >>>>>> things happen to him or his family? You never know what is behind the > >>>>>> next corner. Nothing of this I hope will happen, but who is going to > >>>>>> take on his spirit? What about all the guys who have been working with > >>>>>> the library and spent a lot of hours working with it? You have to > >>>>>> realise that this is life and not a one-man show, even though you might > >>>>>> have an idealistic view. It might be as long as it works, but if it > >>>>>> does > >>>>>> not.... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I've seen the community do some really good testing and bug > >>>>>>> reporting on this mailing list. However I haven't seen any large > >>>>>>> contributions, and not a single one that improves qooxdoo's core > >>>>>>> functionality. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> You address the problem! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Exactly. Who wants to contribute if it is not taken seriously. You do > >>>>>> not think a SplitPane is worthwhile? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think you should show more respect for the work of the contributing > >>>>>> people. What you say is that the contributors like me, Streifert, > >>>>>> Ricks, > >>>>>> Björn and Vogel and all the others is not even worthwhile. > >>>>>> Your statement does not stimulate people to contribute! Why not find a > >>>>>> positive attitude in this? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The only thing I am trying to do is to point at consolidation what has > >>>>>> been done and secure its future development, because first then it is > >>>>>> possible to use it professionally. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's also very hard to match qooxdoo's quality of code, to the > >>>>>>> point where you must almost invest a similar amount of energy as > >>>>>>> Sebastian and his company in order for your contribution to be > >>>>>>> worth considering. What does this mean for us users? We're getting > >>>>>>> a lot more of a 'professional' toolkit than we paid for!! :) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I think personally you are wrong. Sebastians et al work has been > >>>>>> fantastic. Rome was not built on one day and not by one person. Do we > >>>>>> really want only passive users sitting down and waiting for the team of > >>>>>> Sebastian? I certainly do not want that, because the risk of using the > >>>>>> library will be too high. It is not a question about paying...sigh! It > >>>>>> is a question about doing something! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sebastian has been doing all he can to attract more developers, > >>>>>>> but there's nothing he can do until they show up. Have patience in > >>>>>>> this respect and the project will grow organically. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I do not agree on this point. If you do not stimulate people to > >>>>>> contribute, the work will never be done as fast. Even worse if you > >>>>>> reject people's efforts... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you're dissatisfied but you don't have time to do something as > >>>>>>> large as rewriting qooxdoo's layout engine (snicker), qooxdoo > >>>>>>> would benefit most from some advocacy. Write articles to AJAX > >>>>>>> development publications. Write a wikipedia entry. Show off your > >>>>>>> qooxdoo projects. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I have. Did you? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You seem to have strong opinions in this area. Again, I only try to > >>>>>> consolidate the efforts and investment in a better way as it has been > >>>>>> done so far. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Referring to your contributions, we are all welcome. Why don't you post > >>>>>> your code so we will see it at least in the contributed folder? It > >>>>>> would > >>>>>> be very much appreciated, instead letting this only be a speech. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> What qooxdoo needs is more quality developers, not looser QA. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> What is this? No comment! It has no space in this discussion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Kent > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting > >>>>>>> language > >>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the > >>>>>>> live webcast > >>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding > >>>>>>> territory! > >>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting > >>>>>> language > >>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live > >>>>>> webcast > >>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding > >>>>>> territory! > >>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting > >>>> language > >>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live > >>>> webcast > >>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding > >>>> territory! > >>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting > >>> language > >>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live > >>> webcast > >>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding > >>> territory! > >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language > >> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live > >> webcast > >> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! > >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language > > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast > > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Qooxdoo-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
