On 2/5/2009 1:05 AM, Mark Difford wrote:
I think that all appeared on January 8 in Vance's blog posting, with a
comment on it by David M Smith on Jan 9. So those people have -27 days
Then there was no need for vituperative comments (not from you, of course):
simply point doubters to the right place, as you have done. But Mr. Vance's
comments only deepen the "mystery."
If Mr. Vance was aware of the true origins of R, why did he choose to
misrepresent them in his article, which is what got the publicity and which
is the item that most people saw/read? Most right-thinking people don't,
wouldn't, or haven't taken the matter further than that. Their criticisms,
as mine have been, have been aimed at the NY Times and Mr. Vance's lack of
ethics. It also seems clear from Mr. Vance's comments that there was no
editorial or sub-editorial meddling.
That's not what I read in the posting to this list that I cited.
I doubt if Ashlee Vance is reading this list, so it doesn't really seem
fair to blame him if he doesn't respond to your attacks.
So I'm not complaining, but the main problem I saw in his article was
that it didn't mention me. I knew Robert Gentleman (even had an office
next to him!) before he started R: surely that must have been a key
influence. Why else did he move to the far side of the globe? And not
only that, but to compound the insult, the NY Times has failed to
mention me every day since then!
Duncan Murdoch
The knee-jerk reaction ? Well, it is almost amusing to see how sensitive
some very hard-nosed individuals on this list can be, or have become.
Regards, Mark.
still to wait.
Duncan Murdoch-2 wrote:
On 2/4/2009 3:53 PM, Mark Difford wrote:
>>> Indeed. The postings exuded a tabloid-esque level of slimy
nastiness.
Hi Rolf,
It is good to have clarification, for you wrote "..,the postings...,"
tarring everyone with the same brush. And it was quite a nasty brush. It
also is conjecture that "this was due to an editor or sub-editor," i.e.
the
botched article.
I think that what some people are waiting for are factual statements from
the parties concerned. Conjecture is, well, little more than conjecture.
I think that all appeared on January 8 in Vance's blog posting, with a
comment on it by David M Smith on Jan 9. So those people have -27 days
still to wait.
Duncan Murdoch
Regards, Mark.
Rolf Turner-3 wrote:
On 4/02/2009, at 8:15 PM, Mark Difford wrote:
Indeed. The postings exuded a tabloid-esque level of slimy
nastiness.
Indeed, indeed. But I do not feel that that is necessarily the
case. Credit
should be given where credit is due. And that, I believe is the
issue that
is getting (some) people hot and bothered. Certainly, Trevor Hastie
in his
reply to the NY Times article, was not too happy with this aspect
of the
story.
Granted, his comments were not made on this list, but the objection is
essentially the same. I would not call what he had to say "Mischief
making"
or smacking of a "tabloid-esque level of slimy nastiness." The knee-
jerk
reaction seems to be that this is a criticism of R. It is not. It is a
criticism of a poorly researched article.
It also is an undeniable and inescapable fact that most S code runs
in R.
The problem is not with criticism of the NY Times article, although
as Pat
Burns and others have pointed out this criticism was somewhat
misdirected
and unrealistic considering the exigencies of newspaper editing. The
problem
was with a number of posts that cast aspersions upon the integrity of
Ihaka and Gentleman. It is these posts that exuded tabloid-esque slimy
nastiness.
I am sure that Ross and Robert would never dream of failing to give
credit
where credit is due and it is almost certainly the case that they
explained
the origins of R in the S language to the writer of the NYT article
(wherefrom
the explanation was cut in the editing process).
Those of us on this list (with the possible exception of one or two
nutters)
would take it that it goes without saying that R was developed on the
basis
of S --- we all ***know*** that. To impugn the integrity of Ihaka
and Gentleman,
because an article which *they didn't write* failed to mention this
fact, is
unconscionable.
cheers,
Rolf Turner
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