It seems to me that if the government said "Community service must consist of feeding the poor," or "feeding the poor, advocating for the environment, or trying to prevent violence," that would be like Rust. But when the government allows a vast range of ideological advocacy, chosen by the student, as "community service," but excludes religious advocacy, that seems much more like Rosenberger (to the extent that it's like any of these cases).
> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Charlow > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:50 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: UW Service requirement > > > Isn't this situation analogous to Rust? The government > "subsidizes" the speech it prefers, in Rust by paying the > speaker only to convey its approved messages, here by > awarding academic credit only for its approved activities. > Whether it's right or wrong to consider religious service > community service, the government, at least under Rust, gets > to make that choice, no? Rust did also say that the > university is a "traditional sphere of free expression so > fundamental . . . that the Government's ability to control > speech within that sphere by means of conditions attached to > the expenditure of Government funds is restricted by the > vagueness and overbreadth doctrines", but it's not clear how > that proviso would apply here. > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/10/2004 5:25:16 PM >>> > Well, it does come back to the disagreement, but it > highlights yet another problem with the "OK to discriminate > against religion" school. Such discrimination often involves > the government saying that some viewpoints -- religious ones > -- are not a "community service," while other viewpoints -- > secular political ones -- are. It seems to me to be an > impermissible judgment for the government to make, as to > student speech. Perhaps there should be some more protection > for religious speakers than just nondiscrimination (though > I'm skeptical about that). But surely there should be at > least that protection. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Jamar > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:06 PM > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > Subject: Re: UW Service requirement > > > Comes back to the disagreement mentioned by someone else > earlier -- religion is a special case in all respects. > Non-discrimination is not sufficient. > > On Wednesday, November 10, 2004, at 04:06 PM, Volokh, Eugene wrote: > > > Hmm; can a university really say that converting people > to a belief about gun control, or animal rights, or > environmentalism is a "community service," but a belief about > following some religious moral code, and some religious route > to salvation is not? Is the government entitled to value > persuasion to some such viewpoints more than persuasion to > other such viewpoints? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Jamar > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:01 PM > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > Subject: Re: UW Service requirement > > Well, one might be a community service and the other not. > Providing a forum for and presentation of political > discussion and viewpoints is not the same as doing that for a > particular religion. > > Steve > > On Wednesday, November 10, 2004, at 03:41 PM, Volokh, Eugene wrote: > > Seems to me hard to see how a university can give > "community service" credit for student speech advocating > controversial political viewpoints (presumably viewpoints of > the student's own choice), but deny credit for student speech > advocating controversial religious viewpoints. I recognize > that the university might take the view that persuading > people to support gun control is a community service, but > persuading people to accept Jesus is not -- but I don't think > it can discriminate among student causes based on that viewpoint. > > Eugene > > -- > Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 > Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8428 > 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar > > Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth > and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and > steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where > neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not > break through nor steal. For where your treasure is, there > will your heart be also. > > Matthew 6:19-21 > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, > see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be > viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read > messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; > and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the > messages to others. > > -- > Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 > Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 > 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar/ > > "There are obviously two educations. One should teach us how > to make a living and the other how to live." > > James Truslow Adams > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, > see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be > viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read > messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; > and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the > messages to others. > _______________________________________________ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
