I'm not sure that the following intervention will be productive, but: My sense is that this discussion has reached beyond the limits of list-relevance in its discussions of the substance of ID, evolutionary theory, etc. (I remember enough about physics from college to know that "the law of entropy" says nothing about the possibilities of an increase in order in any subset of the universe as a whole.)

Alan Leigh Armstrong wrote:

Evolution appears to violate the law of entropy. That is things tend to disorder. (examples: a deck of cards, any teenagers bedroom.) Evolution assumes that things become more ordered.

Physicists in industry are not going to spend the time on it because it will not help produce a product.
Physicists in colleges are not looking at it because there is no grant money in it. Also would a published article on the subject help them get tenure?


Alan

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On Dec 14, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Michael MASINTER wrote:

How does evolution appear to violate the laws of thermodynamics? And if
it does, why haven't physicists figured it out?


Michael R. Masinter            Visiting Professor of Law
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Alan Leigh Armstrong wrote:


My training in physics was that a theory is an explanation that fits the facts. For example, the theoretical physicist comes up with a theory. The experimentalist runs the experiment and gives the results to the theoretical physicist who then modifies the theory.

There are many holes in the "theory of evolution." Evolution appears to
violate the laws of thermodynamics. There are also many things that
have been presented as evidence of evolution that have been proven
false.

The problems with evolution and the major schools of thought within
evolution should be taught to the students. If DI has a different
theory that fits the facts, it should also be taught.

I tend toward the 6 days of creation with the clock counting the time
being at the center of the big bang. The gravitational effect slowing
down the clock so that we may still be in the seventh day.

Alan

Law Office of Alan Leigh Armstrong
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On Dec 14, 2004, at 3:05 PM, Steven Jamar wrote:

Sandy, I agree that there is value in multiplicity in the three
examples you mention, including critiques of evolution.  But there is
a difference between evolution (an established fact) and disagreements
about the mechanism by which it works.  Requiring teaching that
evolution is false is not an acceptable alternative.  But allowing or
even requiring critiques makes a great deal of sense.  Even if it is
creationism light.

Knowledge is not all a matter of social power.  But what constitutes
"truth" at any given time certainly is affected by social power.

Steve

On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 05:16 PM, Sanford Levinson wrote:

I just listened to an NPR segment quoting one of the supporters of ID
saying that it is important that students be presented with
alternatives to Darwinism. That is, this is an appeal to the
importance of a multiplicity of points of view. Is there a
principled way of deciding when that is a desiderata? Consider,
e.g., the failure of American public schools to present in any
serious way the propositions that a) we have quite a dysfunctional
Constitution (a proposition that I personally believe) and b) there
are legitimate reasons for various and sundry persons around the
globe to hate us (a proposition that I also believe, but not for all
of the various and sundry persons who in fact hate us, obviously). I
take it that the persons who believe in multiplicity of views with
regard to ID are unlikely to accept its importance with regard to my
examples. But, conversely, I presume that persons who agree with my
examples are likely to be hostile to presenting ID as even a
possibility. Is Foucault right, that what counts as "knowledge" (or
"disputable theory") is all a matter of social power? (This is not a
rhetorical question.)
sandy

-- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar/

"It is by education I learn to do by choice, what other men do by the
constraint of fear."

Aristotle
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