I have a question for Marty. If it violates the EC for a chaplin to preach--in his official capacity--the doctrine of salvation by faith in Christ, then why aren't all official sermons and prayers violations of the EC? Surely, the EC does not allow the official praying of some prayers and the official preaching of some religious doctrines while forbidding others? Does it? Denominational neutrality is at the core of the EC. Clearly, government has no business expressing approval of some and disapproval of other sermons and prayers. Am I wrong?
If so, where are the lists of those doctines that have the government's blessing (and those that have its curse)?
Rick
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, this isn't a context in which religious tests can be eliminated altogether. (Query: Why isn't it therefore a violation of article VI?) But the military clergy hiring must be nondenominational, i.e., made without sectarian discrimination. (But cf. the recent Simpson Wiccan decision and Scalia and Thomas opinions in the Ten Commandments cases, all of which give a green light to sectarian discrimination.)
I assume that the comments in question here were spoken in Klingenschmitt's official capacity. If so, he violated the Establishment Clause, and the government can discipline him for acting in clear violation of the Constitution (and, for that matter, in violation of military rules about appropriate official speech and conduct). That is to say, this (presumably) is not a penalty imposed based on Klingenschmitt's *private* speech or beliefs, as Rick Duncan appea! rs to assume. To the extent my assumption is wrong, and it *is* a punishment for speech in his private capacity, it raises interesting questions at the intersection of Pickering/Connick/Torcaso/McDaniel/Larson/etc.
> _______________________________________________
> To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
>
> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private.
> Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can
> read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the
messages to others.
From: "Mark Graber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>
Subject: RE: Free speech for chaplains
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:20:47 +0000
How does the military appoint a chaplain without requiring a religious test for the office?MAG
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/05 11:12AM >>>Sandy's question is an interesting one. Can the military fire or discipline a chaplin because the military disagrees with his religious beliefs (or at least with his preaching of his religious beliefs)? Doesn't such a decision amount to a religious test for office? Or at the very least, denominational discrimination forbidden by Larson v. Valente (evangelicals need not apply)?In other words, could the military require a doctrinal statement--"salvation is universal for all who believe anything sincerely"-- for the office of chaplin?To put a twist on the issue, suppose a chaplin preaches that homosexual marriages are within God's will. Could a chaplin be disciplined for preaching that?Cheers, Rick Duncam
Sanford Levinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:There is a fascinating article in today's NYTimes on the increasing number of Evangelical chaplains in the armed services. Consider oe James Klingenschmitt, of the Evangelical Episcopal Church, whose retention was recommended against by his commanding officer following, among other things, his preaching at a memorial service at sea for a Catholic sailor that "emphasized that for those who did not accept Jesus, 'God's wrath remains upon him.'" I presume that the this was not meant to apply to the Catholic seaman, but it obviously suggested to any Jewish or Muslim (or atheist or Buddhist, etc., etc., etc.) that they were condemned to God's wrath. In any event, is there a serious argument that it is improper to take such speech into account in deciding whether to recommend that the contract be renewed. I presume, incidentally, that the armed forces would not renew the contract of a chaplain who sugested that a given wa! ! r was in fact "unjust," If the armed services can constittionally do that (presumably on grounds that it is not good for the morale of those in the armed services), then why can't it fire chaplains who suggest that many members of the armed services are damned to eternal perdition?sandy_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Rick Duncan
Welpton Professor of Law
University of Nebraska College of Law
Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
Red State Lawblog: www.redstatelaw.blogspot.com
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner________________________________________________! __
_______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Rick Duncan
Welpton Professor of Law
University of Nebraska College of Law
Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
Red State Lawblog: www.redstatelaw.blogspot.com
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle
"I! will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
