Joel's post raises an excellent analogy. Say that a child tells his classmates that he thinks Christianity is a myth, and that belief in religion is illogical -- eminently legitimate and important arguments, but ones that will naturally offend his classmates. (Note that the statement could arise in many different contexts -- a student declaiming to a group of classmates over lunch; a student saying this to another student in order to challenge his faith; a student saying this in response to a question about why he's not a Christian; a student bringing up this argument in a class discussion; and so on.)
Under current doctrine, I take it that the school must tolerate such speech unless it's actually likely to start a fight. On the other hand, if it does risk starting a fight, then the school may suppress it, even though this sort of heckler's veto would be prohibited otherwise. And the rule would be the same if the child told his classmates that he thinks people who belong to other religions won't be saved, and will thus end up in Hell. On the other hand, if schools are entitled to ban the "non-Christians will end up in Hell" speech on the grounds that it's offensive -- with no evidence of a likely fight -- then they'd be entitled to ban the "Christianity is a myth" speech, too. Eugene -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:11 AM To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics' Subject: RE: non-disruptive speech ? Perhaps the better analogy would be when my child simply points out that Jesus is just a fictional character like Shaggy or even Scooby Doo, and his teaching are to be given about the same weight. It seems that those who have never had to endure this kind of assault have little idea the damage it does. Whether it's having rocks thrown at you, or some of the good Christian children waiting to beat on you when you leave the building, there are rarely good consequences to standing up for your Jewishness at school. There are few things I teach my children to stand and fight about. Religion happens to be one of them. If others find that offensive, perhaps they might want to put an end to the cause. Telling Jewish kids they are going to hell is never the end of the conversation, it is always the start of the confrontation. Joel L. Sogol Attorney at Law 811 21st Ave. Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35401 ph: 205-345-0966 fx: 205-345-0971 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ben Franklin observed that truth wins a fair fight -- which is why we have evidence rules in U.S. courts. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Duncan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:32 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: non-disruptive speech ? If I understand Joel correctly, the next time a peer informs my son, a 3d Degree Black Belt, that it is "homophobic" to discriminate against same-sex "marriages," my son ought to kick the hateful speaker soundly with his best board-breaking side kicks. Hmmm. I think I would discipline him at home for such violent conduct. Rick Duncan Joel Sogol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Rich Duncan says: The law is clear that public school students do not shed their free speech rights at the public schoolhouse door. They have a clear right to engage in non-disruptive speech. Discussing the doctrine of salvation by faith is not hate speech. It is quite the opposite. That's why John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." So let's understand - the next kid that tells my 7 year old that we are going to hell, which whether Rick agrees or not is always where that conversation goes, is going to get a basic understanding of the karate classes Sam is now taking. The speech is in fact more then just disruptive, and it invites a response that will be equally unacceptable at school, but for which my son will not be disciplined at home. Joel L. Sogol Attorney at Law 811 21st Avenue Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35401 ph (205) 345-0966 fx (205) 345-0971 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ben Franklin observed that truth wins a fair fight -- which is why we have evidence rules in U.S. courts. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. Rick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902 "When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
