RE: [RemEnKimi] Did the arabic letter (ein / 3) ever exist in Cop tic?

Fri, 22 Jul 2005 07:12:08 -0700

Your very welcome!

Yeah, the development of the glottal stop in Egyptian is quite interesting; the two sources it comes from are a uvular trill (/R/) - this is the so-called "Parisian r" - and the /j/ (yot). In Middle Egyptian the remaining /R/s all change over to the glottal stop and finally from there to Coptic there were a few more related sounds in word final position that ended up developing into the glottal stop.

It's thought that in older Ancient Egyptian the sound was not at all common and only occurred here  and there - obviously, it's come a long way and became fully developed and used.

 

Mike S  

 

From: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mechaiel
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:57 AM
To: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RemEnKimi] Did the arabic letter (ein / 3) ever exist in Coptic?

 

Dear Mike,

 

Many many thanks. What you're saying makes sense.

 

If anyone else has anything further to add, I would be interested to hear it. Thanks guys.

 

Mechaiel

----- Original Message -----

From: Szelog, Mike

Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:07 PM

Subject: RE: [RemEnKimi] Did the arabic letter (ein / 3) ever exist in Coptic?

 

Hello Mechaiel.

Ancient Egyptian did contain the glottal stop, however, it was never given a hieroglyphic grapheme, i.e. it was never indicated in writing. It comes from two earlier sources and existed in word initial position (usually said word began with a vowel), and also in between vowels so in Ancient Egyptian, it's 'ankh, not ankh. In Middle Egyptian, it developed from yet another similar source and because of this could now occur at the end of words as well. This phoneme (sound) was carried over to Coptic, however again, like in A/E, it is not indicated graphemically (i.e. there's no Coptic letter that represents the glottal stop) however, in all dialects except Bohairic, if it occurs in medial position in a word, it's indicated by doubling the vowel. At the beginnings and ends of words, it's not indicated in spelling in any dialect.

Both "onq" /'onx/ and "amoun" /'amu:n/ exist in Coptic, but I'm not sure about the word "tout" - meaning (in A/E) "image" .

Hope that helps,

Mike S

From: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mechaiel
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:14 AM
To: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RemEnKimi] Did the arabic letter (ein / 3) ever exist in Coptic?

 

Hi guys,

 

From a young age, I have heard people say words like Tut-Ankh-Amoun in the Egyptian accent, pronounced with the arabic letter ein (3ein). So it is pronounced Tut-3ankh-Amoun. Also Ra (the Sun god) pronounced Ra3 (with the arabic ein).

 

I have the following questions:

1) Is there an equivalent to the letter 3ein in the Coptic language?

2) Has the 3ein sound ever existed in the Coptic language? If so, how is it written?

3) How is Tut-Ankh-Amoun written in Coptic?

 

Any input on the subject would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Mechaiel

 

 

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