Uff, I do not know who has written this page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-layer_materials#C:_graphene_and_graphyne
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Graphen.jpg/220px-Graphen.jpg1z@]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-layer_materials#C:_graphene_and_graphyne>

Single-layer materials - 
Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-layer_materials#C:_graphene_and_graphyne>
In materials science, the term single-layer materials or 2D materials refers to 
crystalline solids consisting of a single layer of atoms. These materials are 
promising for some applications but remain the focus of research. Single-layer 
materials derived from single elements generally carry the -ene suffix in their 
names, e.g. graphene.Single-layer materials that are compounds of two or more 
...
en.wikipedia.org



but it was not Mike. Graphene is listed among 2D materials as well as 
phosphorene (which I understand easily as its layer is not planar).

Radovan

Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch<mailto:radovan.ce...@unige.ch>
URL    : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

________________________________
De : Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com>
Envoyé : vendredi 30 décembre 2022 13:33
À : Radovan Cerny <radovan.ce...@unige.ch>
Cc : Mike Glazer <mike.gla...@physics.ox.ac.uk>; RIETVELD_L Distribution List 
<rietveld_l@ill.fr>
Objet : Re: "2d materials don't exist" editorial??

If you want to have a rant, just have a look at the wikipedia page for 
single-layer materials.

Phosphorene is particularly egregious: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phosphorene_structure.png

On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 at 20:30, Radovan Cerny 
<radovan.ce...@unige.ch<mailto:radovan.ce...@unige.ch>> wrote:
OK, I understand. Thank you Mike.

The graphene is then 2P material with the layer group p6/mmm. Can somebody give 
me an example of a 2D material with the plane group p6mm?

Thank you

Radovan

Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch<mailto:radovan.ce...@unige.ch>
URL    : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
________________________________
De : Mike Glazer 
<mike.gla...@physics.ox.ac.uk<mailto:mike.gla...@physics.ox.ac.uk>>
Envoyé : vendredi 30 décembre 2022 12:20
À : Radovan Cerny <radovan.ce...@unige.ch<mailto:radovan.ce...@unige.ch>>; 
Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>>
Cc : RIETVELD_L Distribution List <rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>>
Objet : Re: "2d materials don't exist" editorial??

Radovan
Not quite. Graphene  is a 3d material but has periodicity in 2d making its 
symmetry given by one of the 80 subperiodic layer groups.
Mike Glazer

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> 
<rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr>> on behalf of 
Radovan Cerny <radovan.ce...@unige.ch<mailto:radovan.ce...@unige.ch>>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 11:07:52 AM
To: Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>>
Cc: RIETVELD_L Distribution List <rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>>
Subject: RE: "2d materials don't exist" editorial??

Thank you Matt,

for bringing this subject which I have never taken too seriously, butt as 
Massimo pointed out in his paper, there are important differences in what 
symmetry allows for 2D and what for 2P, for example.

I feel now a bit responsible, because my colleagues at the Quantum matter dpt. 
at UNIGE are working on layered pnictides and call them always 2D materials, 
which is not correct. They are 2P materials. I will try to educate them now, 
even if I am retired. Maybe they can call them 2D materials if they talk about 
the physical properties rather than about the structure?
I have already tried to introduce then in the OD theory for polytypic 
structures, but without too much success. They prefer to do their DFT modelling 
rather than have a look on what has been already done.

A test, whether I have properly understood Massimo: Graphen is 2D material, but 
when I attach anything to it or take more than one layer of graphen, it becomes 
2P material, right?

Have a nice end of the year

Radovan

Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch<mailto:radovan.ce...@unige.ch>
URL    : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
________________________________
De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> 
<rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr>> de la part de 
Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>>
Envoyé : lundi 26 décembre 2022 11:08
À : Alan W Hewat 
<alan.he...@neutronoptics.com<mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>>
Cc : Leopoldo Suescun <leopo...@fq.edu.uy<mailto:leopo...@fq.edu.uy>>; 
RIETVELD_L Distribution List <rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>>
Objet : Re: "2d materials don't exist" editorial??

These are good learning events.

.

And it doesn't make much third dimensional periodicity to make a layered 
material act as a bulk 3d material (see recent publications by Kate Putman), or 
at least from a powder diffraction point of view.




On Sun, 25 Dec 2022, 12:40 Alan W Hewat, 
<alan.he...@neutronoptics.com<mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> wrote:
Symmetry is the Crystallographer's first love, but periodicity is more 
important in deciding to call a structure 2D or 3D. Powder diffraction in 
particular showed that symmetry is ephemeral in many materials, whose symmetry 
is lowered when they are cooled. This symmetry is just the consequence of 
averaging over time and space. Yet we remain fascinated by symmetry, sometimes 
imposing it on Nature when it has no physical consequences.

Great to have a little philosophy to go with the Christmas pudding. Thanks 
Mathew.
________________________________
Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics
Grenoble, FRANCE (from phone)
alan.he...@neutronoptics.com
+33.476984168 VAT:FR79499450856
http://NeutronOptics.com/hewat
_______________________________


On Sun, 25 Dec 2022, 01:16 Matthew Rowles, 
<rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I didn't even know of the existence of the frieze, rod, and layer groups until 
I read this comment.

So, I guess it's working?

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022, 22:49 Leopoldo Suescun, 
<leopo...@fq.edu.uy<mailto:leopo...@fq.edu.uy>> wrote:
Hi all,

Thank you Matt for bringing up this issue.

Massimo Nespolo has been fighting for the correct description of structures, 
specially focusing on symmetry and proper terminology, for years (see his many 
articles on the misuse of lattice, sublattice, superlattice, etc).

He has, as well, been educating crystallographers of all ages in symmetry 
concepts and use through IUCr's MaThCryst Commision and Internationa School on 
Fundamental Crystallograpy courses around the world.

He'll probably be remembered by many as a Dick Marsh of symmetry.

I guess it is the task of all us, crystallographers, to promote the correct use 
of terminology related to crystal structures, as suggested by IUCr conventions 
included in IUCr Dictionary and modern literature.
 https://dictionary.iucr.org/Main_Page

Best wishes for all of you that, in a way or another have this as a special 
week in your calendars, and Happy New Year for all.

Leo

El sáb, 24 de dic. de 2022 05:01, Matthew Rowles 
<rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>> escribió:
Hi all

I think this is the one

https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?S1600576721001606

Matthew

On Fri, 23 Dec 2022, 10:00 Matthew Rowles, 
<rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This might be it, but the link is to the iucr homepage:

Google: "letter to the editor" two-dimensional "layer groups" graphene iucr

[image.png]




On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 at 09:53, Matthew Rowles 
<rowle...@gmail.com<mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all

A while ago (months, years??) I recall reading an editorial or letter to the 
editor about materials being referred to as "2D", and how they're actually 3D, 
and just periodic in the plane, and should be referred to as 2P and a relevant 
layer group.

Does anyone recall such a thing?


Thanks

Matthew
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