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Today's Topics:
1. Re: How to read Sanskrit Prose? (Sai)
2. Re: How to read Sanskrit Prose? (Ambujam Raman)
3. RE: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 31 1.
Mahabharata/Bhagavad-Gita Question (Sunder Hattangadi)
4. On mUrtAM and agAt. (peekayar)
5. Re: Mahabharata/Bhagavad-Gita Question (peekayar)
6. Re: How to read Sanskrit Prose? (Vis Tekumalla)
7. sItArAvaNa-samvAda-jharii (contd. 2) (peekayar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:16:33 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] How to read Sanskrit Prose?
To: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
(Switching to sanskrit to make the charchA relevant to the mailing list :-)
> and gave up in no time (and I speak both languages fluently).
dR^ig-SravaNa naipuNye pR^ithak kila!
(visual and listening skills are distinct, aren't they?)
bhavataH sAndra-telugu-lipyAH avagamane akauSalaM nyUna-abhyAsAd-eva iti me matiH |
^^^^^^(is the vibhakti ok here?)
(Your inability to parse dense telugu script is only due to lack of
practice).
- Sai.
Vis Tekumalla uvaacha:
> That reminds me. My father was a lawyer in India and he used to look
> at these old legal documents written in Telugu and Oriya. The people
> who had written them were professional scribes and they wrote in what
> we call in Telugu "kalipi-vraata" meaning writing with no pause (no
> break between letters or words). I tried reading some of them for fun
> and gave up in no time (and I speak both languages fluently). He had
> absolutely no problem reading them quickly and making sense out of
> them.
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:30:39 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] How to read Sanskrit Prose?
To: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Vis Tekumalla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
O.K! Testing time:
Following is from shankarabhaaShya. Simple vocabulary. Translate and state
your timing.
shokamohaadisaMsaarakaaraNaniv^Rtyartha^Ngiitaashaastrannapravartakamityetas
yaarthasya saaxibhuuta ^Rcaavaaninaaya bhagavaan |
I will post the translation and my timings after you have tried!
rAmaH
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 02:01:16 +0000
From: "Sunder Hattangadi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] RE: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 31 1.
Mahabharata/Bhagavad-Gita Question
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Namaste,
These lines do occur in the Kinjavadekar edition [1930, Munshiram
Manoharlal, Delhi] in Bishma-vadha Parva of Bhishma Parva (citation 43:4
tallies).
The on-line version is at URL:
http://bombay.oriental.cam.ac.uk/john/mahabharata/pune_text/welcome.cgi
It is Prof. Tokunaga's encoding (adapted by Prof. John Smith) of
the BORI [Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute] Pune, Critical Edition, in
which 4 chapters have been expunged, and it includes this particular ch.
BORI certainly should have the materials (unless destroyed in the
recent rampage at the Institute).
Regards,
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: sanskrit Digest, Vol 18, Issue 31
>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:17:04 -0600 (MDT)
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Mahabharata/Bhagavad-Gita Question (Vis Tekumalla)
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:07:19 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [Sanskrit] Mahabharata/Bhagavad-Gita Question
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>mahaaSayaaH:
>
>I came across the following verse (it is given in three lines just as I
>show here) in the introduction part of a Bhagavad-Gita book:
>
>ShaTshataani savi.mshaani shlokaanaa.m praaha keshavaH
>arjunaH saptapa~nchashat saptaShaShTi.m cha sa~njayaH
>dhR^itaraaShtraH shloka-meka.m geetaayaa maana-muchyate
>
>The book said the verse is from Mahabharata Bhishma Parva and gave the cite
>as 43.4 in that Parva. I checked the online versions of Mahabharata and
>could not find such a verse. Purportedly (if the verse does exist in
>Mahabharata) in Bhagavad-Gita - Krishna has 620 shlokas, Arjuna 57, Sanjaya
>67, and Dhritarashtra 1 - making a total of 745 verses. Bhagavad-Gita
>versions available now have only 700 (or 701 - some versions have an extra
>shloka "prakR^iti.m puruSha.m chaiva" attributed to Arjuna in the 13th
>chapter) shlokas with the following breakdown: Krishna - 574, Arjuna - 84,
>Sanjaya - 41, and Dhritarashtra - 1 - Total = 700. The book went on to say
>that some shlokas are lost forever (Arjuna's shlokas increased however). It
>also said, they found a manuscript in Gujarat with 755 verses, but that
>doesn't math with with the 745 number either.
>
>Does such a verse exist in Mahabharata Bhishma Parva? If yes, have you ever
>come across any scholarly discussion anywhere about that apparent
>descrepency?
>
>
>
>...Vis Tekumalla
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:31:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] On mUrtAM and agAt.
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The commentator gives the meaning of mUrtAM
as sharIravatIM. He says "mat" or "vat" takes an
a or aa dropping the i to indicate possession.
It becomes an adjective to vipadam (calamity).
which is of feminine gender. These are two
separate words. Figure of speech - utprekSaa.
For agaat the root is "i" to go. Example - shashinaM punareti sharvarii - The
commentator says
-- iNo lu~Ng -- The rule is -- iNo gaa lu~Ngi --
iti gaadeshah (gaa + aadeshah).
Here I remember the context of using the word aadeshah meaning substitute. Quoted
earlier as "asterbhuuh" on Sugriva becoming a substitute
for Baali.
P.K.Ramakrishnan
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Mahabharata/Bhagavad-Gita Question
To: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have a copy of Mahabharata printed by Gita Press Gorakhpur where the verses
mentioned by Sri Vis
Tekumalla occurs as verses 4 and 5 (part) of Ch.43
in Bhishma Parva giving a total of 745 verses.
But in the same edition of Mahabharatha in Gita Chapters there are only 700 verse as
follows.
But the in the same edition Gita Chapters show like this.
577 by Krishna, 70 by Arjuna, 52 by Sanjaya, 1 by DhR^itarASTra - Total 700
P.K.Ramakrishnan
Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:mahaaSayaaH:
I came across the following verse (it is given in three lines just as I show here) in
the introduction part of a Bhagavad-Gita book:
ShaTshataani savi.mshaani shlokaanaa.m praaha keshavaH
arjunaH saptapa~nchashat saptaShaShTi.m cha sa~njayaH
dhR^itaraaShtraH shloka-meka.m geetaayaa maana-muchyate
The book said the verse is from Mahabharata Bhishma Parva and gave the cite as 43.4 in
that Parva. I checked the online versions of Mahabharata and could not find such a
verse. Purportedly (if the verse does exist in Mahabharata) in Bhagavad-Gita - Krishna
has 620 shlokas, Arjuna 57, Sanjaya 67, and Dhritarashtra 1 - making a total of 745
verses. Bhagavad-Gita versions available now have only 700 (or 701 - some versions
have an extra shloka "prakR^iti.m puruSha.m chaiva" attributed to Arjuna in the 13th
chapter) shlokas with the following breakdown: Krishna - 574, Arjuna - 84, Sanjaya -
41, and Dhritarashtra - 1 - Total = 700. The book went on to say that some shlokas are
lost forever (Arjuna's shlokas increased however). It also said, they found a
manuscript in Gujarat with 755 verses, but that doesn't math with with the 745 number
either.
Does such a verse exist in Mahabharata Bhishma Parva? If yes, have you ever come
across any scholarly discussion anywhere about that apparent descrepency?
...Vis Tekumalla
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:33:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vis Tekumalla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] How to read Sanskrit Prose?
To: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sai uvaacha:
dR^ig-SravaNa naipuNye pR^ithak kila!
(visual and listening skills are distinct, aren't they?)
bhavataH sAndra-telugu-lipyAH avagamane akauSalaM nyUna-abhyAsAd-eva iti me matiH |
^^^^^^(is the vibhakti ok here?)
(Your inability to parse dense telugu script is only due to lack of
practice).
--------------------------
bhavatu praayaH bhoH | kintu tat aha.m na j~naatavaan |
(okay, probably, but I don't know about that)
About vibhakti - tatraiva dvitiiya kutraapi syaat - bhavaan api etat a~Ngiikaroti kim?
for that sentence dviteeya instead of shashTi seems more natural (lipiim vs. lipyaaH).
Whenver I see the "gam" dhatu or its incarnations my mind races toward dviteeya:-).
Do you also agree?
That brings in the interesting topic of Sanskrit syntax (abhyaaseva naipuNyam).
When you do a namaskaar you may say - shree gaNeshaaya namaH (chaturthi)
Or, you may say to yourself f - shree gaNeshaM namaami (dviteeya)
Jataayu may tell Rama about the events - jaTaayuH kathayati raamaaya... (chaturthi)
Then, Rama may say something to Jataayu - tarhi raamaH vadati jaTaayuM (dviteeya)
you love someone in saptami - raamaH snihyati siitaayaam (saptami:-)
We have already seen some sati saptami examples (dhana~njaya & PKR mails);
and so on. It's obvious you need practice.
Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
(Switching to sanskrit to make the charchA relevant to the mailing list :-)
> and gave up in no time (and I speak both languages fluently).
dR^ig-SravaNa naipuNye pR^ithak kila!
(visual and listening skills are distinct, aren't they?)
bhavataH sAndra-telugu-lipyAH avagamane akauSalaM nyUna-abhyAsAd-eva iti me matiH |
^^^^^^(is the vibhakti ok here?)
(Your inability to parse dense telugu script is only due to lack of
practice).
- Sai.
Vis Tekumalla uvaacha:
> That reminds me. My father was a lawyer in India and he used to look
> at these old legal documents written in Telugu and Oriya. The people
> who had written them were professional scribes and they wrote in what
> we call in Telugu "kalipi-vraata" meaning writing with no pause (no
> break between letters or words). I tried reading some of them for fun
> and gave up in no time (and I speak both languages fluently). He had
> absolutely no problem reading them quickly and making sense out of
> them.
>
...Vis Tekumalla
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:14:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] sItArAvaNa-samvAda-jharii (contd. 2)
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
sItArAvaNa-samvAda-jharii (contd. 2)
4
niveshyodyAne svaalaya-parisarasthe rahasi taaM
tadiiyaM saundaryaM niratishayam-aalokya cha muhuH .
sa kaamii svasmintaaM kathamapi saraagaaM raghupatau
viraagaM ca shriimatyapi kalayituM yatnamakarot .. (shikhariNii)
inveZyae*ane Svaly-pirsrSwe rhis ta<
tdIy< saENdy¡ inritzym!-AalaeKy c mu÷>,
s kamI SviSmNta< kwmip sraga< r"uptaE
ivrag< c ïImTyip kliytu< yÆmkraet!. izoir[I
niveshya = having deposited
udyaane = in the park
swaalaya-parisarasthe = in the vicinity of his own palace
rahasi = secretly
taam = her
tadIyaM saundaryaM = her beauty
niratishyaM = wonderful
aalokya cha muhuH = and looking at again and again
sa kaami = that lustful being
swasmin = in himself
taam = her
kathamapi = somehow (with great difficulty)
saraagaaM = attracted
raghupatau = in Raghupati
virAgam = unattractedness
cha = and
shrImatyapi = (sakala kalyANa guNasampanne api) Even if having
all the good qualities.
yatnaM akarot = tried
Having deposited here secretly in the vicinity of his Palace (in the ashokavana) and
at looking at her enchanting beauty again and again, that lustful person tried somehow
to invoke in her his own agreeableness and Srirama’s disagreeableness.
shikhariNii meter.
The word kAma takes ii to denote despise.
tad takes iiyam to declare ownership.
nirgatam atishyaM niratishayam.
kathaM is an avyayaM.
By using the phrase kathamapi, the poet implies the utimate defeat on Ravana’s part.
P.K.Ramakrishnan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24th Sep. 2004
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