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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 55, Issue 10 (hn bhat)
2. Re: Double mistake (Hera Moon)
3. It is the nature of family circumstance common for all (hn bhat)
4. The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable (hn bhat)
5. Re: The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable (Hera Moon)
6. Re: The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable (Balaji)
7. Re: The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
8. Re: Pronunciation of 'Sa' (Sai Susarla)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:58:30 +0530
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 55, Issue 10
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310911170328w5f02da54g18a6c01149964...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Balaji" <bal...@balaji27.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:43:09 -0000
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Double mistake
> Beautiful concept! I wonder what finally happened to the Ali?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* P.K.Ramakrishnan <peeka...@yahoo.com>
> *To:* sanskrit digest <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:30 AM
> *Subject:* [Sanskrit] Double mistake
>
>
> ??????????????????? ????????? ???????: /
>
> ???? ????????????????? ????? ?????????????? //
>
> palAsha kusuma bhrAntyA
>
> shukatunDe patatyaLiH /
>
> sOpi jambUphala bhrAntyA
>
> tamaLiM grastumicchati //
>
> The palAsha tree has flowers which
>
> look like parrots.
>
> A bee looks like a jAmUn fruit?
>
> Thinking that it is the flower of palAsha
>
> a bee falls into the beak of a parrot.
>
> The parrot tries to grab the bee
>
> thinking that is the jAmUn fruit.
> -----------------------------------
> P.K. Ramakrishnan
> http://peekayar.blogspot.com
>
>
> Very beautiful description of mistaking each other for the flower of
> Palasha and the Jambu fruit. This mistaking or illusion is the central point
> in this verse.
It should be noted that the Palasha flower is red in colour and resembles in
shape the beak of the parrot. And the honey-bee mistook the beak of the
parrot for the Palasha flower and rush into it hoping to collect honey. This
illusion is the essence in the verse. The colour and the curved shape of the
Palasha flowers can be understood from the following description of
Kalidasa:
??????????????????????????? ???? ???????????????????
???????????? ????????? ?????????? ????????????
The flowers of Palasha curved as the crescent moon shone dark red like the
nail marks in the forest regions as they enjoy coming of the Spring Season
for the first time.
The simile in the second half needs some familiarity in reading the Sanskrit
poetry and its poetic conventions. It suggests the idea of the description
of lovemaking of a heroine with a hero, her lover.
And what finally happened to the Ali? Nothing happens.
They were playing in this way for long, and the idea inspired in the mind
of the poet. When the illusion disappears, both will go on their way. The
figure of speech is "Bhrantiman" in this verse.
--
Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:39:42 +0100
From: "Hera Moon" <heram...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Double mistake
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4b02998d.0f975e0a.789f.ffffe...@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Powerful imagery! Sounds like a double trap of marriage.
If the shuka (either husband or wife) is merciful, it will let the ali
(mismatch by the power of mAyA) escape.
If not, the episode will end up with an instant reincarnation for ali and
stomach ache for shuka.
_____
Von: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] Im
Auftrag von Balaji
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. November 2009 11:43
An: Sanskrit Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [Sanskrit] Double mistake
Beautiful concept! I wonder what finally happened to the Ali?
----- Original Message -----
From: P.K.Ramakrishnan <mailto:peeka...@yahoo.com>
To: sanskrit digest <mailto:sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [Sanskrit] Double mistake
??????????????????? ????????? ???????: /
???? ????????????????? ????? ?????????????? //
palAsha kusuma bhrAntyA
shukatunDe patatyaLiH /
sOpi jambUphala bhrAntyA
tamaLiM grastumicchati //
The palAsha tree has flowers which
look like parrots.
A bee looks like a jAmUn fruit?
Thinking that it is the flower of palAsha
a bee falls into the beak of a parrot.
The parrot tries to grab the bee
thinking that is the jAmUn fruit.
-----------------------------------
P.K. Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com
_____
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:19:09 +0530
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] It is the nature of family circumstance common for
all
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310911180649y46a83904o2dfd9f64bab33...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
This is the nature of the family circumstance common in the world.
?????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ?????????? ??? |
?? ? ???????????? ???? ???????????????? ???????? |
????? ???? ?????????? ???? ???????? ?????????? |
??????????? ??? ? ???? ???? ?????????????? ?? ??? ||????
The same state of perplexed Shiva with his retinue is generalized by
another poet as common for other human beings unavoidable. *Even the lord of
the worlds could not avoid it; then how can a common man can prevent it in
the world?*
The hungry serpent of Shiva wants to eat the mouse, the carrier of Ganapati.
And the peacock of Kumara, the subjugator of Krauncha mountain, wants (to
eat) it (the serpent). The lion, carrier of Parvati, also wants (to eat) the
peacock, for whom the serpent is the food. If this is state of the members
of the family in the house of even Shambhu, then, how it can be otherwise to
any human being in the world? Because, it is the nature of it.
Next another view of the same in a different circumstance.
--
Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:32:02 +0530
From: hn bhat <hnbha...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<b1ef99310911180802w79b47eeei1ca43880db836...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Another context where the retinue of Shiva was favorable to his attempt:
???????-??????????-????-?????????? ??????
???????? ????????????????-??-???????? ?????????????
???????????-??????-??????-???-?????????-??????-
???????????????? ????????? ?????? ????????????????
---------------------------------
Garuda, the carrier of Vishnu, comes forward, in the hope of carrying his
master, Vishnu, who acts as the arrow, but runs back heated by the sparks of
the fire flaming in the eye (of Shiva). As the result of this the arrow was
shot automatically from the bow as the string in the form of the king of
serpents Vasuki was pulled as he contracted (out of fear as Garuda comes
near) and straightened (when he gets back). Thus the attempt of Shiva only
up to placing the arrow on the bow thrives , on the burning of the cities.
The context is the burning of three cities built by three demons in them by
Shiva. The equipments for fighting were extra-ordinary. Shiva himself was
the archer and the Meru mountain was made the blow and the string Vasuki was
made the string. In the arrow, Vishnu himself established. So the equipment
is ready. Now, only the shooting of the arrow to burn the cities remained.
Garuda, the carrier of Vishnu came forward in the hope of carrying his
master, on which the bow was pulled as the string serpent Vasuki contracted
and the bow was straightened as Garuda set back fearing burning from the
fire in the eye on the forehead of Shiva. As a result, the arrow itself was
shot, as soon as it was place on the bow. The effort of Shiva was limited
only to the placing the arrow on the blow. The rest was accomplished
automatically, saving the effort of pulling the string and shooting the
arrow etc. This much is conveyed by the brief description.
--
Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:23:42 +0100
From: "Hera Moon" <heram...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
To: "'Sanskrit Mailing List'" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4b042d9b.0e0db80a.5147.1...@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Many heartfelt thanks for all those beautiful verses, especially for providing
the meaning and interpretation.
Both verses (Shiva?s family and retinue circumstances) are from the same poet,
I guess.
At least they are composed in the same metre.
A lot more coming up? Hope so.
Hera
_____
Von: sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu [mailto:sanskrit-boun...@cs.utah.edu] Im
Auftrag von hn bhat
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. November 2009 17:02
An: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Betreff: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
Another context where the retinue of Shiva was favorable to his attempt:
???????-??????????-????-?????????? ??????
???????? ????????????????-??-???????? ?????????????
???????????-??????-??????-???-?????????-??????-
???????????????? ????????? ?????? ????????????????
---------------------------------
Garuda, the carrier of Vishnu, comes forward, in the hope of carrying his
master, Vishnu, who acts as the arrow, but runs back heated by the sparks of
the fire flaming in the eye (of Shiva). As the result of this the arrow was
shot automatically from the bow as the string in the form of the king of
serpents Vasuki was pulled as he contracted (out of fear as Garuda comes near)
and straightened (when he gets back). Thus the attempt of Shiva only up to
placing the arrow on the bow thrives , on the burning of the cities.
The context is the burning of three cities built by three demons in them by
Shiva. The equipments for fighting were extra-ordinary. Shiva himself was the
archer and the Meru mountain was made the blow and the string Vasuki was made
the string. In the arrow, Vishnu himself established. So the equipment is
ready. Now, only the shooting of the arrow to burn the cities remained. Garuda,
the carrier of Vishnu came forward in the hope of carrying his master, on which
the bow was pulled as the string serpent Vasuki contracted and the bow was
straightened as Garuda set back fearing burning from the fire in the eye on the
forehead of Shiva. As a result, the arrow itself was shot, as soon as it was
place on the bow. The effort of Shiva was limited only to the placing the arrow
on the blow. The rest was accomplished automatically, saving the effort of
pulling the string and shooting the arrow etc. This much is conveyed by the
brief description.
--
Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:33:30 -0000
From: "Balaji" <bal...@balaji27.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4935d9d6c5fa467997938bd985f50...@balajimain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Bhatji,
I think in line 1 the last word should be dhavate and not dhavite?
Balaji
----- Original Message -----
From: hn bhat
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:02 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
Another context where the retinue of Shiva was favorable to his attempt:
???????-??????????-????-?????????? ??????
???????? ????????????????-??-???????? ?????????????
???????????-??????-??????-???-?????????-??????-
???????????????? ????????? ?????? ????????????????
---------------------------------
Garuda, the carrier of Vishnu, comes forward, in the hope of carrying his
master, Vishnu, who acts as the arrow, but runs back heated by the sparks of
the fire flaming in the eye (of Shiva). As the result of this the arrow was
shot automatically from the bow as the string in the form of the king of
serpents Vasuki was pulled as he contracted (out of fear as Garuda comes near)
and straightened (when he gets back). Thus the attempt of Shiva only up to
placing the arrow on the bow thrives , on the burning of the cities.
The context is the burning of three cities built by three demons in them by
Shiva. The equipments for fighting were extra-ordinary. Shiva himself was the
archer and the Meru mountain was made the blow and the string Vasuki was made
the string. In the arrow, Vishnu himself established. So the equipment is
ready. Now, only the shooting of the arrow to burn the cities remained. Garuda,
the carrier of Vishnu came forward in the hope of carrying his master, on which
the bow was pulled as the string serpent Vasuki contracted and the bow was
straightened as Garuda set back fearing burning from the fire in the eye on the
forehead of Shiva. As a result, the arrow itself was shot, as soon as it was
place on the bow. The effort of Shiva was limited only to the placing the arrow
on the blow. The rest was accomplished automatically, saving the effort of
pulling the string and shooting the arrow etc. This much is conveyed by the
brief description.
--
Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:09:40 +0530 (IST)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <peeka...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <389986.63480...@web95302.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
similarly puraana-purusha could be puurusha
?????-????? could be ?????-?????-----------------------------------
P.K. Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com
________________________________
From: Balaji <bal...@balaji27.freeserve.co.uk>
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Wed, 18 November, 2009 11:03:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva - turning favourable
?
Dear Bhatji,
I think in line 1 the last word should be dhavate
and not dhavite?
Balaji
----- Original Message -----
>From: hn bhat
>To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:02
> PM
>Subject: [Sanskrit] The retinue of Shiva
> - turning favourable
>
>
>Another context where the retinue of Shiva was
> favorable to his attempt:
>???????-??????????-????-??????????
> ??????
>????????
> ????????????????-??-???????? ?????????????
>???????????-??????-??????-???-?????????-??????-
>????????????????
> ????????? ?????? ????????????????
>---------------------------------
>Garuda, the carrier of Vishnu,
> comes forward, in the hope of carrying his master, Vishnu, who acts as the
> arrow, but runs back heated by the sparks of the fire flaming in the eye (of
> Shiva). As the result of this the arrow was shot automatically from the bow
> as
> the string in the form of the king of serpents Vasuki was pulled as he
> contracted (out of fear as Garuda comes near) and straightened (when he gets
> back). Thus the attempt of Shiva only up to placing the arrow on the bow
> thrives , on the burning of the cities.
>
>The context is the
> burning of three cities built by three demons in them by Shiva. The
> equipments
> for fighting were extra-ordinary. Shiva himself was the archer and the Meru
> mountain was made the blow and the string Vasuki was made the string. In the
> arrow, Vishnu himself established. So the equipment is ready. Now, only the
> shooting of the arrow to burn the cities remained. Garuda, the carrier of
> Vishnu came forward in the hope of carrying his master, on which the bow was
> pulled as the string serpent Vasuki contracted and the bow was straightened
> as
> Garuda set back fearing burning from the fire in the eye on the forehead of
> Shiva. As a result, the arrow itself was shot, as soon as it was place on
> the
> bow. The effort of Shiva was limited only to the placing the arrow on the
> blow. The rest was accomplished automatically, saving the effort of pulling
> the string and shooting the arrow etc. This much is conveyed by the brief
> description.--
>Hari Narayana Bhat
> B.R.
>EFEO,
>PONDICHERRY
>
________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>To UNSUBSCRIBE or
> customize your subscription or topics of interest,
> visit
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>and follow
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:10:17 +0530
From: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Pronunciation of 'Sa'
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<f9dd91150911191040q15175ccu2f3c25659f3d0...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I agree with Sri Nath Rao on 'sa' and 'sha/Sa'. But pronunciation of Sha
does not need curving the tip of the tongue upward isn't it?
The difference between sa, sha and Sha seems to be based on which part of
the tongue to constrict against the corresponding portion of the palate. tip
of tongue near the teeth is 'sa', middle of tongue near the middle the
palate is 'sha' and base of tongue near the base (close to the soft palate)
is Sha. You don't need to curve the tongue backward for any of these.
Here is the progression of pronunciation according to laghu siddhaanta
kaumudii (See my vyAkaraNa vaibhavam part 4):
L^i tu la saanaam dantaaH
(L^i, ta varga, la and sa are pronounced with the tip of the tongue very
close/touching the palate just behind the teeth).
i chu ya shaanaaM taalu
(i, cha varga, ya and sha are pronounced with the middle portion of the
tongue touching/coming close to the taalu (top of the palate)
R^i Tu raShaaNaam mUrdhaa
(R^i, Ta varga, ra and Sha are pronounced with the mUrdhaa (roof of
mouth/edge of the soft palate?)
The curious thing is, R^i, Ta Tha Da Dha Na and ra all need curving of the
tongue backwards.
But Sha just needs constriction of tongue against mUrdha, but not curving it
back.
During my lesson, I had pointed out that 'ra' is put under mUrdhaa varNas,
which means it's to be pronounced like the Americans pronounce r.
- Sai.
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Nath Rao <ra...@osu.edu> wrote:
> Sumalatha Majeti wrote:
> > I come from Andhra and I have been wanting to know why we have three 'sa
> > Sa Sha ' in our script. The pronunciation for these are [ the way we
> > are taught]
> >
> > sa - as in saguna
> > Sa - as in Sakuni
> > Sha - as in ruShi
> >
> > I was talking to one of my Kannada friends and he was teasing that
> > Telugu and Tamil people pronounce Shiva as siva and that is wrong. I
> > want to know what is correct according to sanskrit so that I can correct
> > myself and my kids also on this, if needed.
>
> Actually, confusion of the sibilants is rife all over India. I have seen
> very good Sanskrit scholars from the north confuse 'Sa' and 'Sha'. Lot
> of Prakrits collapsed all three into 'sa'. So it is not just Tamilians
> (who might have borrowed 'siva' from a Prakirt rather than Sanskrit).
>
> Anyway, 'sa' is the most familiar: the tip of your tongue almost touches
> your teeth. For 'Sa', the flat top of your tongue touch the roof of your
> mouth; sah 'cha' and then reduce the contact between the tongue and
> palate. For 'Sha', the tip of your tongue curves back and touches the
> roof of your mouth.
>
> Try saying 'nishchaya' and 'iShTa' and you should be able to feel the
> difference.
>
> Regards
> Nath Rao
> _______________________________________________
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 55, Issue 11
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