Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, Glynn Foster a écrit : The fact is, however, that KDE has the largest market share, and that means the majority of our readers probably use KDE most, or use only KDE. Is this true, though? Online polls consistently give KDE a 2:1 advantage over GNOME, but that is over the relatively small customer base of early-adopter alpha geeks (or whatever they're called) - the people who read free software news sites and things like that. But it doesn't measure people using a free desktop at work, or in telecenters, or atr school, who may not know they're using linux, and certainly don't browse those sites that run online surveys on whether you're using GNOME or KDE. I don't know if there's anything that we can do to change that image, or redress the bar, or even start changing that trend in online polls to get it closer to 60/40 or even 50/50. It is a little worrying that an online magazine is almost ignoring GNOME... Still, we didn't do too badly with GIMP, Rhythmbox, Gaim and Totem articles in there. Well, rhythmbox, gaim and totem got 1 page each... It's better than it could have been, but still. It really does seem like they're a KDE magazine. Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Business cards
Hi Murray, I inkscape a bit... what do you mean by 'line up vertically'? Do you want this? [GNOME Foot] GNOME [GNOME Foot] Foundation [GNOME Foot] Member Or do you want the text right- and left-aligned? To my eye, the text looks aligned. The problem is more letter shape - the curved G and the slanted M *look* to be a few pixels to the right of the straight edged F, but they are very close to spot-on to my eye. Or is it the right edge that is causing you trouble? Cheers, Dave. Murray Cumming a écrit : I tried to use Adobe Illustrator to make the text line up vertically, but it's not much better in Illustrator. Here's the Illustrator .ai of my attempt, with exports as .eps, .svg and .png: http://www.murrayc.com/temp/gnomemarketing/gnome_member_logo_murrayc/ Gimp renders the svg identically to Illustrator but Inkscape arranges the text differently. Maybe Gimp is using the embedded font information. On Wed, 2005-04-13 at 23:25 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: On Wed, 2005-04-13 at 18:32 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 08:53 -0300, James Bowes wrote: On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 09:59 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: The example card seems to mention a company, but this should be a non- commercial card. Would you like to change this? Done. I've just replaced the old one, so http://flame.cs.dal.ca/~bowes/business_cards/member_logo/card_with_logo.svg is where the new sample lives. Sorry, I don't see any difference. James emailed it to me: http://www.murrayc.com/temp/gnomemarketing/ -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: upcoming conferences and liveCDs
Hi Claus, Claus Schwarm a écrit : Maybe we could just write a single flat page? Either == Continent == === Month === Conference * Details Sounds good. Make sure to add a [[TableOfContents]] at the top for easy linking. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Actions (was: Surveys at conferences..)
Hi Sri, My reaction to things like this is starting to be great idea - who's going to do it? We have lots of ideas currently lacking people following up on them - from collecting press contacts, to getting posters t-shirts designed, through surveys and market research. What we really need is a terse list of initiatives that we are working on with names opposite them. Here's a short list of the stuff that's ongoing: GNOME Journal (Jim, Sri) Upcoming conferences (Claus) LiveCD (Luis) Press contacts (?) Deployments list (Dave) Printed material (posters/flyers/t-shirts) (?) Market research (?) Can we get some concensus behind a few outstanding points for overall strategy? 1) Main target audiences: Existing GNU/Linux users, public administration (both of these are huge and growing markets - they may even be too wide) 2) Main selling point: Ease of use Bear in mind that selling points are different for different markets, and that we cannot market to everyone at the same time. We know we have a great platform, good bindings, cool apps, etc. But to get a core, focussed message, we have to concentrate on one thing we do better than anyone else. We are the easiest to use Free Desktop. Every review of GNOME I've ever seen has praised its clean, easy to use interface. So let's use that, and make it self-evident. Material should be clean, elegant, and have one simple core message - Using GNOME won't piss you off. GNOME doesn't get in the way. Can we start putting names to some of those ?s above, please? Cheers, Dave. Sri Ramkrishna a écrit : You know it might be interesting to do surveys at conferences to see what people want. Places like OSCON has a lot of people from school districts, government, and purchasing depts from companies and getting real feedback from them would be cool. It might give us a better random sample I think than a web one. Just a thought. sri -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Actions
Hi, Glynn Foster a écrit : Can we get some concensus behind a few outstanding points for overall strategy? 1) Main target audiences: Existing GNU/Linux users, public administration (both of these are huge and growing markets - they may even be too wide) 2) Main selling point: Ease of use Hrm, what about universities? Do you mean students (which would kind of fit into a potential contributor target audience (1)) or IT department heads (which would pretty well fit into the public administration target audience (2))? Of course there are special points to address with university IT departments. Often they are interested not just in costs, but in relevancy. So we would need to show (at the stage where we start sending people to do presentations and demos) that GNOME can provide the framework they can use for courses, and can provide the type of experience that students will need in the marketplace. When I said existing GNU/Linux users, I actually meant potential contributors - which is more broad than early adopters. Better still, it would be nice if we could get some GTK+ programming courses up and running [could people be coaxed with C#, C++ or Java bindings?] It's not my place to decide, but I am of the opinion that colleges should be toolkit and platform agnostic, and should teach neither windows or GTK+ programming. As for the list, I think it would be helpful if someone could flesh out those bullet points a little bit more - then you might get more people volunteering for tasks. Which bullet points? The stuff in the list was a list of things which we have had discussions about on the list. They didn't quite come out of the blue :) I suspect they all have at least one wiki page already :) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Actions
Hi Claus, Claus Schwarm a écrit : On Mon, 09 May 2005 09:49:51 +0200 Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GNOME Journal (Jim, Sri) Upcoming conferences (Claus) Please note that I got active for the GNOME Journal lately, and I don't know how long I'll need to do it. I just tried the other format of the conference list, and I'm waiting for the OK from Luis to clean it up. No need for an OK - fire ahead :) The wiki is versioned, and it's made for playing with. However, I'm not going to update the individual entries. Maybe we could ask the local teams doing it? They should have the best overview. What is useful is a single point-of-contact. What typically happens is something like this: Without point-of-contact 1. Someone blogs/mails some list somewhere/mentions on IRC about a conference 2. Someone replies asking that the conference be added to a wiki page 3. There is no 3. With point-of-contact 1. Someone blogs/mails some list/mentions on IRC a conference 2. Someone else says Claus Schwarm's maintaining a list of conferences in the wiki. Let him know about it, or add it to the wiki 3. The person mails Claus, who adds it to the wiki for them. Poeple are usually uncomfortable editing wiki pages early on. They hae trouble believing that it's OK. It seems like it belongs to someone else. So having a human face really helps. Even if it's only to say Sure, go ahead, add that to the wiki. Being the person who keeps an eye open for deployments and testimonials (and reviews - keep an eye open for me for online reviews, guys), I can tell you that there's not much work involved, but that people really appreciate having someone to contact about these types of things. Maybe Sri is willing to compile a list of possible questions on the wiki? ;) Perhaps someone else - I seem to recall a few months ago someone who was interested in market research. A hunt in the archives shows I was thinking of John Williams. John - you still about? Interested in taking this on? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Another online survey
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT2127420238.html This one showing GNOME losing ground against KDE? which has 60% of the readership of the site in question. Not a very healthy trend... Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Another online survey
Hi, Simos Xenitellis a crit : The real fight to get GNOME even higher is to win more distros. Right. Anyone have any idea how we can go about that? It would be nice to have a 5 minute pitch for distros... in fact, someone could try to come up with one and give it as a lightning talk at GUADEC (hint, hint). Then we would need to get a list of decision makers in the distros that we can engage, and influence. Give them the pitch, collect their concerns if they're going against us (the only thing that we can't really address is KDE has more market share), and collect collate the results. Sounds like a nice, meaty time consuming effort with big rewards. Who's up for it? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Yet another link
OK - the second slashdot link of the day. I know I shouldn't send these, but right now we don't appear to have a good place to shove this kind of thing in the Wiki. http://www.tes.co.uk/2094985 Obviously someone in the dept of education is deciding people should move to free software. Would be nice if we could find out who and get chatting to them. Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, Steve George a écrit : Conventional wisdom says you should pick a single segment and concentrate on that one only. Well, let's say at most 2 :) Users = As these are early adoptors the 'power' mantra is a significant factor. GNOME pushes simplicity. So the value should be about being 'powerful enough to do what you want, simple enough to be usable' similar to the 'simple things are easy, hard things are possible'. I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of where GNOME has its biggest market opportunity. GNOME is not for tuners. GNOME is the desktop that doesn't get in the way when you want to get some work done. And more and more, power users I know are looking for that from a desktop. These are the über-geeks who are buying macs en-masse. We want them dual booting Ubuntu. Or keeping their PCs with GNOME on them. I know that I like using GNOME, because I don't have to think about it. I don't need to spend a weekend after I install it getting everything just the way I like it. As we specifically want users who are active then you can push the freedom, community and involvement aspects of the project. Sure, some of these aspects can figure in a campaign, but I don't think they should be the central element. It would be interesting to see what particular qualities of GNOME actual normal users like! I really think it's Elegant, easy to learn, easy to use. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
[Fwd: Slides from GNOME on BSD presentation]
Hi all, Another GNOME presentation that we can include in the pool of stuff for GNOME marketing. I'll attach this to live.gnome.org - anyone know of other presentations that we should collect, or even other places where presentations are gathered, that we should point to? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- I recently gave a talk entitled GNOME on BSD at the Canadian BSD conference, BSDCan. I've put the slides into a ridiculous web gallery thinger. The tarball is at: http://people.freebsd.org/~adamw/gnome_on_bsd_slides.tar.bz2 Any chance it could be included in the archive along with the slides from other GNOME-related presentations on the GNOME ftp server? # Adam -- Adam Weinberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]|| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vectors.cx -- http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-private From time to time confidential and sensitive information will be discussed on this mailing list. Please take care to mark confidential information as confidential, and do not redistribute this information without permission. ---End Message--- -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME tour?
Hi Murray, Luis has been talking about something like this using vnc2swf or vino+GStreamer to generate Theora. Which is nice, and sounds like a step towards having these demos. Murray Cumming a écrit : So, what would we put in that tour? I can think of - File Management - The Panel and some everyday applets. - Evolution - GnomeMeeting - Preferences - System Tools - System Admin tools/lockdown - Messaging (Gossip/GAIM) - Web browsing (Evolution/Firefox) - Music management (CD ripping, burning, music management playing) - Photo management (if we have something we can present here) - Office (a quick Abiword/GNUMeric/gnome-db demo) - OpenOffice (ask for one to be made by the OOo people?) - Games (Solitaire, Monkey Bubbles, Tetris, gnect) - Document viewing (evince, if it gets into 2.12) - General utility stuff (calculator, character palette, dictionary, search (while we're waiting for beagle)) - Help (yelp) When we have a standard way to do it, I'd love to have a simple beginners tour for the GIMP too. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: Slides from GNOME on BSD presentation]
Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : there are a bunch in ftp- I believe l.g.o points at them somewhere. That would be better. What do I have to do to get an account which can upload onto ftp.gnome.org? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME tour?
Hi Luis, Luis Villa a écrit : On 5/17/05, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Murray Cumming a écrit : lots of stuff Note that I won't be doing anything that covers even 50% of this, particularly given that scripts need to be written and sample material generated for every demo, since they have to be translated and redone for other languages. So anything I do would start off very, very simple- menus, file management, maybe totem and the web. I forgot about movies... I had this vision that it would work more or less like this: 1) Luis comes up with documents the process for doing demos, along the way doing one or two demos. 2) Dave, Luis, Murray and anyone else interested hassles maintainers of various modules to create a demo by following the instructions (improving the instructions in the process). We can do some demos of course, but we don't have to do them all. 3) ... 4) Profit!!! Is this far out of line with what you were expecting? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
Hi, Marcus Bauer a écrit : My suggestion is: Gnome - easy and efficent I like it. It doesn't say *what* GNOME is, but I don't think that we really need to in a slogan. Just compare the overly cluttered menues of ... to Gnome. The ease of snip a heavy ... dominance in my local linux user group. Aren't we allowed to say KDE on the list? :) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: more random brainstorming
Hi, Variations on just works: The desktop for people with better things to do Desktop software that doesn't get in the way Get on with it Just do it (might be taken...) Makes Stuff Work The Best of Breed Desktop (just for Luis) Easy, useful, unobtrusive Cheers, Dave. PS. I'm not so sure that we are not well-known to our target audiences. One possible (low-effort) strategy for us is to let Lunx get bigger on its own, and increase our share of the linux desktop. And on the linux desktop, the vast majority of people know about GNOME and KDE. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: evangelist users- the other key note from LCA marketing BOF
Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : On 5/19/05, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some major flaws in current gnome marketing: There are many :) The major one at this stage is that we are spending lots of time talking about what we want to say, how we want to say it, and who we want to say it to, but we are spending a lot less time actually saying it :) Luis pimping LiveCDs is great, toady distributing over 1000 Ubuntu CDs (I only found out about this yesterday) in his college, to friends, family and colleagues, is amazing as well. We need more of this. The Gnome website is - what? It exists. But from a marketing point of view it is not much. The navigation is sub optimal. And the layout is sub optimal. Some good information is now on gnomefiles but unless you know what you are looking for it is far from perfect. It should be totally redone. Any suggestions on how are welcome. We can at least replace the front page more or less immediately. Reorganising and rewriting content inside the front page will take quite a while - perhaps we can plan to have that done at a certain date, and coincide a rebranding/relaunching of the GNOME brand at the same time? reality is, though, that it is a large task and until we agree on some bigger-picture stuff (like markets, themes, goals, etc.) it is hard to rework the whole thing consistently. Yeah. We need a leader to say OK, that's our market, let's not talk about it any more. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: The 3 minute pitch
Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : Note that even at places like LWE no one really cares about Freedom. It is sad, but true. Usability and Free (as in beer) go a lot farther. Freedom as in freedom from vendor lock-in, and freedom of choice tend to go down well (at least here). Freedom as in I can look under the hood and tinker goes down about as well as the same argument does at car dealerships with 80 year old women. In terms of economy, there's a really great argument about where money goes, but explaining it in a clear way isn't easy. The TCO argument (claims that free software is more expensive than Windows) holds some water - at least, it's plausible enough that people believe it, and we need to address it. RoI for free software deployments tends to measure itself in years (at least in studies I've heard about, reports have been of higher IT costs in the short term for training, lost productivity and migration costs, falling sharply after 2 to 3 years). But even if you're looking at a higher investment in the short term, you need to look at where the money goes. If you pay the Windows and Office tax, you're sending your euros and dollars to Dublin and Redmond. If you move to free software, you're spoiled for choice for local consultancies, training companies, knowledgeable and competent graduates. Your money is going straight into the local economy. Extramadura even hired some graduates to maintain Guadalinex, which is giving directly skills and money to the local economy. You can end up very quickly as a government breeding your own local centers of excellence in software - as we're seeing in Spain, India, Brazil, Chile. And that money goes to encouraging IT in your country, encouraging new companies, giving graduates an alternative to moving to Europe or the US. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Proposal for GNOME press release about Nokia device
Hi, Sriram Ramkrishna a crit : GNOME enters embedded device market with Nokia No!Sorry, but we don't want to be in the embedded market. We discussed this at length in both marketing BOFs. We want this to be ISVs give GNOME software stack a stamp of approval Unfortunately, given that there was a release about Nokia during GUADEC already: http://www.gnome.org/press/releases/nokiadonation.html it looks like your work has been wasted. Leslie made the release in Stuttgart in co-operation with the Nokia people who were here. Leslie's going to be coming on the list now, so hopefully this won't happen again. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Proposal for GNOME press release about Nokia device
Hi Claus, Luis took lots of notes. I have only my memories. I expect he will write it up when he's back home and has recovered. Cheers, Dave. Claus Schwarm a écrit : On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:29:01 +0200 Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We discussed this at length in both marketing BOFs. Might be nice to post a summery to the list who was there, what topics have been discussed, and what the agreements were; similar to the board meeting summeries. Cheers, Claus -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME wins in the OSNews poll
Ken VanDine a écrit : http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10731 I saw that, nice :) We should say the same things we have said about other polls though - this one got mentioned on a few prominent GNOMEy blogs, it's on our very own Eugenia's OSNews, etc, etc. It's a nice reversal of the tendency to have 2:1 KDE:GNOME votes on these things, though. Perhaps we're doing something roight without realising it? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Software Freedom Day
Hi, We should probably do something for Software Freedom Day (even if it's only letting more people know about it) http://softwarefreedomday.org/ - it's the second year it's been help, and I think it's a really good idea which deserves traction and attention. I don't know what we can do, in particular, apart from encouraging local groups to form groups for the event, or join existing groups, putting a splash for the event on our front page at some stage (before the 2.12 release, I think), and organising release parties for 2.12 to coincide with it. But even if that's all we do, I'm for it. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day
Hi, Simos Xenitellis a crit : In addition, the OpenCD will be available, which has cross-platform applications based on GNOME technologies. A task would be to inform the end-users that they are using software based on GNOME technologies. * Perhaps rework the About dialog menu to show prominently that the app is based on GNOME technologies. * Do application branding around the idea Based on GNOME technologies, GNOME Inside (hmm), or a logo with a foot, the word Inside, in a cirlce. In brainstorming during board and marketing sessions at GUADEC, we came up with the idea of GNOME certification - things would earn a GNOME certification level by playing nice with GNOME. Level 1 could be using common desktop standards like the notification area, drag drop, thumbnailing standards. Level 2 could be use of the GTK+ toolkit. HIG compliance would be another level, using GConf and other GNOME platform technologies another, and so on. Once you're at level 4 or 5 (using GNOME technologies, respecting GNOME visual guidelines and the HIG), you *are* a GNOME app (de facto), regardless of whether you're part of the platform or not. The idea will take off, or not, withing the next month. Federico is going to draw up a rough list of what we consider the various levels of certification (while trying to focus on user visible function rather than back-end technology),and from there we'll start working towards launching the idea. Software on the OpenCD should all have certifications of 2 or 3, I think, which means that we're already pretty GNOMEy. It's definitely a strategy that we should exploit, that GNOME applications are often available on Windows. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day
Hi Sri, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : So here is my mock up. I changed it to Get the Brand!. I suck at this stuff so hopefully someone can improve it. Thanks for the effort. Could you please use the simple GNOME foot in future for GNOME branding stuff? It's that one which is trademarked (and anywhere we still have the old one, it needs replacing). The plain foot is on this page: http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/logo/ the gnome2-plain.svg and gnome2-plain-label.svg files are the ones to use. Jeff, could you move the unofficial ones out of there, and generate some pngs from the plain ones, like you did for the old one, please? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software Freedom Day
Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : Yeah, I took mine from your effort that I found on the marketing wiki. You probably want to remove that one or put something to highlight which one to use. Done. Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: MT members page
Hi, Quim Gil a écrit : I took as initial reference a recent email from Dave: Eeep! Now you're going to make me feel guilty that I left so many people out. Simon This was supposed to be Simos. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Permission to incorporate the gnome logo into ours
Hi Mark, I've forwarded your request to the board, which is where all such requests get approved. Regards, Dave. Mark Maunder a écrit : Hi, I run WorkZoo, a job search engine. We're going to be launching a job search dedicated to jobs in open source technologies very soon. I'd like permission to incorporate the Gnome footprint into our logo. I'd be happy to include a message in the footer that gives credit to gnome.org as owner of the logo. We have a great design house working on the logo for our search, so it will be 'tastefully done'. If this list isn't the proper forum for this message, please let me know who I should contact. Thanks, Mark. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [Fwd: GUADEC7 press release draft]
Hi, Claus Schwarm a écrit : Just for the record: Is the IGC hosting GUADEC, or is this going to be a joint conference (IGC and GUADEC)? Hosting. GUADEC will probably have its own conference rooms, but we will be part of the larger conference, and will be sharing lots of infrastructure. The website says, the IGC attracted over 2500 attendents in 2005. That's over 4 or 5 days. Roughly 700 per day. Which is a little bigger than GUADEC. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: LinuxWorld Expo 2005 .Org Village London
Hi, I guess this passed under my radar... Thomas Wood a écrit : If anyone is interested in helping out and is available on either October the 5th or 6th (or both) then please reply as soon as possible so we can let the organiser know we will be able to host a stand. I have an idea which might be useful... will poke around and get back to you. In the meantime, I'm sure that there are other gnome-uk people interested. Thomas Wood wrote: - What is the purpose of a gnome.org stand at a linux expo? Branding. Awareness. Getting new contributors (new users will follow if we get new alpha users who contribute to the community and evangelise). - What are we trying to achieve, what should we focus on telling people? Isn't that the same question, asked differently? :) The focus should be dual, in function of the audience. For developers, it's our great platform, language bindings, the ease with which you can quickly write usable, functional applications. For everyone else, it's usability. GNOME is easy to use, easy to learn, shallow learning curve, power without being difficult, etc. - How can we get people involved and interested in GNOME? See Murray's recent blog on the gnome.de Linuxtag stand. They got a big poster from GUADEC for a stand backdrop (there are two, if you're having a stand we could perhaps get one shipped to you). They had 2 computers facing outwards, people standing in the aisle saying hello to people, LiveCDs to give away from Ubuntu (you could even have 2.12 LiveCDs in October) and some cheesy merchandise from GUADEC (the cloth shopping bags went down well, apparently). They avoided the trap of being too introspective, having a few GNOME geeks reading their mail and using the internet on laptops around a table. In short, they did a great stand (congrats Murray!). Hopefully at RMLL in Dijon next month, GNOME-fr will have a similar great presence. We will have printed leaflets to hand out in French, the other big GNOME backdrop, some t-shirts for volunteers, and a bunch of other stuff (hopefully LiveCDs as well, although not GNOME branded ones). Murray's been pushing for a conference kit (a couple of computers set up for demos and flat screens, a bunch of merchandising material, a stand backdrop, things like that) which could be shipped around from conference to conference. It's still an idea, but Murray's in the process of pricing it, and the foundation is in the process of deciding whether we'll pay for it. That should be great for this type of thing. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: GUADEC7 press release draft]
Hi Quim, Quim Gil a écrit : Let's just do it, then. I guess we have already a definitive text that can go to the translation teams, isn't it? Yes, it's the one I sent you yesterday (the list servers being down for a couple of days has put everything out of whack). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Any ideas on new gnome.org splash?
Hi, Murray Cumming a écrit : On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 00:12 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote: You have all seen the gnome-love pic[2] I did, and that could perhaps work... [2] http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/wgo-front-gnomelove.png As someone else said, the I miss you and When was the last time... are too negative. I like it, but if you want an altertive text, s/I miss you/I love you, and when was the last time you gave GNOME some love? to Give GNOME some love today or something affirming. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: New supporter]
Hi, Selon Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:38:31 -0400 Luis Villa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/5/05, Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, althought our own efforts have no direct result for us, did I understand you correcty: You dare to say we're not really peers? Don't you think, this is a little bit demotivating? It might be demotivating for some folks, I guess, but I don't think it should be. Supporting and serving and fulfilling the needs of a group who you feel is doing honorable, valuable work (instead of managing/directing/'leading' them) is in and of itself honorable, valuable, important work. I'm not quite sure whom do you mean by the last 'them'. Free software developers. IMHO, the idea of any particular group 'leading' (directing, managing) an other particular group is a bad idea for a volunteer project. Sharing the same goal(s) should be sufficient for getting things decided and done. It seems like everyone is on the same wavelength. Oriol asked if we were the group who set the technical direction for the project. We're not. Luis is simply saying that, and saying that groups like the marketing team exist because we shaer a vision with a group of people - we don't have the skills to implement that vision, there are others who do. Because of the nature of our community (tightly knit personal relationships, loose authority hierarchy), the people actually implementing our common vision may be considered to have an opinion which is worth more than others who don't; that is to say, if I suggest a change to metacity, and Havoc disagrees with my proposition, then metacity stays the way it is. However, we are all part of a community where esteem is earned. If, through frequent contribution, someone gains esteem in the greater community, then their opinions and analyses suddenly gain more weight in their areas of expertise,regardless of whether it is them who does the actual implementation afterwards or not. Good examples of this would be the work of Calum Benson or Bill Hanneman in Sun, Seth Nickell and Brian Clarke in Redhat, Tuomas, jimmac and Anna Dirks in Novell (and Luis in the bugsquad). These are people who have enngaged the community, providinng valuable feedback and support, for months, without ever demanding, cajoling or otherwise feeling like they had some kind of right to get someone to do something they wanted to be done. To make a long text short: We need a better answer to the 'Who's responsible for product decisions?' question. The long-term direction of the project is dictated by impromptu woprkinng groups, people with standing in the commuity who get togethertowork on greater goals. We were missing long-term goals for a while, that's what NNat's talk was about at last year's GUADEC, andwhat Seth's talk was abour this year. And wehave had a lotof discussion (Jeff Waugh's presentation on 10x10, working towards a solution ofthe language issue, defining what it means to be part of GNOME, annd so on). That work is ongoing, and if there are very obvious vacuums, people should be pointing them out, taking initiative to presennt specsc, plans, working on creating groups of people with the crcedibility to address those issues. God loves a trier,as my mother says. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Trans.: GNOME et Java en kiosque
Hi list, I would love to see a list of GNOME articles which have been published and are available online (or references to GNOME articles if they're only available in print) mainntained on the list - GNOME in the news or something like that. What would be involved is collating articles like these as they come in, publicising the existence of the list pretty regularly (mailing updates on new articles once every 2 or 3 months), and soliciting articlereferences for the past that we might not have already. I hate to dump an idea and run, but I've got no time to do this, and would love to see someone else take this on as a small ongoing microtask with a bit of boot time involved. I can help withsomelinks to GNOME articles I knnow aboutto get the list of articles, should someone be interested. Cheers, Dave. - Message transféré de Jerome Boitout [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date : Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:42:49 +0200 De : Jerome Boitout [EMAIL PROTECTED] Adresse de retour :Jerome Boitout [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sujet : GNOME et Java en kiosque À : gnome-fr-list@gnome.org Bonjour la liste, Une info pour ceux qui apprécient Java : le magazine l'informaticien publie ce mois ci un article intitulé : Développez des applications GNOME avec Java http://www.linformaticien.fr/sommaire/num027/somm074079.htm C'est une traduction d'un article publié par LinuxJournal. http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8111 Cordialement. Jerome ___ gnome-fr-list mailing list gnome-fr-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-fr-list - Fin du message transféré - -- Dave Neary Lyon, France -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: What are our goals? (was: Re: [Fwd: Re: New supporter] )
marketing if developers from both sides do not find together. What makes you think there isn't? Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: press release to translate - GUADEC
Hi, Selon Fowl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, i can translate too, for Portugueses (Brasil) if anyone want. Thanks for the offer. I'm not sure if pt_br has been done yet, so that would be great. Murray mentioned issuing the release today, so it would be nice to get the translation soon, if you have time to do it straight away. Thanks a lot, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME Member card
Hi, Selon Philip Van Hoof [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 12:13 +0200, Murray Cumming wrote: Please remember, this is not a commercial business card. We can't allow people to use the trademarked GNOME logo on their business cards without explicit permission from the GNOME Foundation. What are the terms for this? Where can I find more information? Both me and my employer would like to put such a logo on my professional business cards. When doing free software things, I'm being the same person as when I'm doing things for customers of my employer. I'd like to use the same card. How does one get that explicit permission? This is covered by typical trademark usage. You ask for permission to use the logo for a particular purpose on [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have a stock professional use trademark agreement that we have worked on, and if we're OK with the professional usage you're asking for, we'll sign the trademark agreement, then send it to you to sign, and you're good to go. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Lyon, France -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Would like to add GNOME Live CD to OSCON packet]
Hi Sri, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : I'm cool if we don't get it in teh packet, we can always distribute it from the booth, at much smaller quantities if money is a factor. Just a word of advice - bag inserts tend to mostly get thrown away, whereas stand giveaways (or better, sales) tend to get used, and might be a more appropriate use of ressources, if there's a cost involved. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Putting marketing materials on gnome.org
Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : On 7/10/05, Andreas Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.viralata.net/blog/archives/2005/07/08/poster-source-published/ Is the wiki inappropriate for this for some reason? No, now that attachments work again (they didn't for some reason a while). MarketingMaterials is probably an appropriate place. (Obviously it isn't appropriate for things like graphics The wiki should be OK for things like graphics as long as we don't start going overboard (*cough* GIMP splash contest *cough*). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Wiki best practices
Hi all, The Wiki allows, as we all know, sub-pages with the notation /SectionName/SubPage This is a very useful way to identify grouped pages with a namespace, and it's particularly useful if a great number of disparate groups are sharing the same wiki (as is our case). However, going beyong 2 levels is ususally not a good idea, and going to 4 is definitely a bad idea. I would like to have the time to clean up the wiki in the near future, but realistically, until August I'm in maintenance mode. If someone wanted to take up the charge in the meantime, that would be great. For example, MarketingTeam/EventsOrganisation/GnomeEventBox/SuggestedCosts could move to MarketingTeam/GnomeEventBoxCosts or even MarketingTeam/EventBoxCosts and it would be linked to from MarketingTeam/EventBox Just because there are lots of pages in the MarketingTeam hierarchy doesn't mean they all need to be linked from the MarketingTeam page... Our wiki has gotten to the stage where linking to deep pages (and handling the wiki text with lots of ../../../s) has gotten more complicated than the benefit of the hierarchy. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Wiki best practices
Hi, Murray Cumming a écrit : On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 09:26 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: However, going beyong 2 levels is ususally not a good idea, and going to 4 is definitely a bad idea. Why? Wow. I thought it was obvious, but you're forcing me to think about it. OK... the first 3 are for readers, the 4th is for writers. 1) Pasting links http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam/EventsOrganisation/GnomeEventBox/SuggestedCosts is over 80 characters long. That means that it will wrap in typical mail clients, doesn't fit nicely in IRC windows, causes warnings for all good news clients, and goes way over the 72 characters that I set my text editor to wrap on. For web links to be useful, they should be under 72 characters all the time, and under 50 if possible. 2) Memorable links To find the above link (even though I knew what I was looking for), I had to navigate the entire hierarchy. On the other hand, I know from memory where http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam and http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam/MarketingMaterial are. Beyond 2 levels, the whole point of wikis (creating memorable link names by chaining together words) doesn't work. The links are no longer memorable. 3) Navigation OK, so this isn't really a good point, but reducing the number of levels makes us think a little bit more about how navigable the site is, and that's never any harm. Too many levels implies a site whose navigability is not good. Compare contrast with best practices for Nautilus spatial. 4) Ease of wiki linking To link from the SuggestedCosts page to, say, the TalkingPoints page I have to write ../../../TalkingPoints - to get to MarketingMaterial, I use ../../../MarketingMaterial. Essentially, to link to another page, I have to navigate to it and see where it is relative to my page - the idea of WikiWords is (as I said above) to make things memorable, so that I don't have to do that so much. Compare contrast to linking to TalkingPoints and MarketingMaterial (how many dots do I need? is it MarketingTeam/TalkingPoints or MarketingTeam/EventsOrganisation/TalkingPoints?) A case in point: on the EventsOrganisation page, there is a link to /TalkingPoints, which should be ../TalkingPoints. Reducing the number of levels just makes it easier not to make mistakes which lead to dead links and/or duplicate pages. I'm sure there are other reasons (Jeff Waugh could probably point a few out), but those should be enough to get started. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Wiki best practices
Hi, Murray Cumming a écrit : I tend to use these deeper pages to tack less-interesting stuff on to more interesting stuff, to avoid cluttering the interesting stuff. If we don't link to the uninteresting stuff anywhere except where it's being tacked on, there's no clutter (except namespace clutter if the number of pages goes into the hundreds) I tend to feel that the advantage of the wiki is that it's editable, and I'm not so worried about the links being easy to write. Not easy to write, primarily, but easy to read. I'll try to limit it, but I don't think it's a big problem so far. It's gotten to the stage where it's annoying me, and making the marketing team section more difficult to make useful. Not hugely so, but we've crossed a threshold, and it'd be good to take a step backwards before going further in the wrong direction. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: hi
Hi, Luis Villa a écrit : Andreas, Javier, others- is it time to start up a proper gnome-art list for you guys to hang out on, and for developers, marketers, etc., to come to with requests? This is not to say that you should leave this list, but it does feel like there is enough to talk about amongst the artists that having one point of contact would make sense. Does that make sense? No! I don't think so. The mailing list hasn't had huge traffic, and keeping the ideas and the artists in the one room for now is a good idea, IMHO. And often the artists and the ideas are one and the same... Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Advice to keep in mind
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Media-Guide/html/index.html There's some good advice in here with respect to dealing with press contacts. Might come in handy. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: 2.12 Release Notes
Hi Andreas, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not a fan of the splash. It doesn't really convey that there's been a release, and there's no sense of excitement about it. If you weren't familiar with GNOME, you wouldn't know that the splash is talking about our latest greatest software, and you wouldn't know that we're really proud of it. Sorry to be so negative with no ideas on what would be better. Cheers, Dave. Andreas Nilsson a écrit : Murray Cumming wrote: I've done most of the text for the release notes, in gnomeweb-wml: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/C/ I've been a bit rushed, so the text is less than perfect. I don't expect to have much time for this after Monday and for the next few weeks. This is for the frontpage. http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/wgosplash-212.png http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/wgosplash-212.svg - Andreas -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Software freedom day
Hi, We're a little late on the get-go, but I think we should do something for Software Freedom Day - http://softwarefreedomday.org/ - September 10th this year. Perhaps GNOME user groups could hold an event for the day? Even if it's only a small demo in a local university? The OpenCD (which ships a GNOME desktop via Ubuntu, and lots of GNOME/GTK+ applications for Windows) is involved, as are Canonical. There is the possibility to receive LiveCDs and some advertising materials for free http://softwarefreedomday.org/index.php?option=com_mosformsmosform=2Itemid=62 The deadline's passed now, but you never know - if you're close enough to a distribution center you may still be able to get some stuff. If you're a young Go-Getter, we now have a range of GNOME posters available for printing, and on September 10th, you should be able to burn off some hot-off-the-presses GNOME 2.12 LiveCDs. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Software freedom day
Hi, Jeff Waugh a écrit : Don't know why it didn't occur to me to pimp this to GNOME, we've been doing lots of stuff about it in Australia and Ubuntu-land. I just noticed :) Andreas, got any thoughts on an SFD-inspired image for gnome.org? (I just got a sudden flash of New GNOME. New World Order. but I don't think that's very SFD compatible.) http://www.cafepress.com/sfdstore has soem t-shirt designs which appear re-usable. I like the Got freedom? tagline with the mountains. Just another data point for people doing stuff for the day. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Review of GNOME 2.12
Thanks Suka, I'll add it to the list (the list is on its way ;) Cheers, Dave. suka a écrit : Hi Luis, As mentioned on IRC I've done a review of GNOME 2.12 for the major Austrian Newssite derstandard.at, our IT-Channel has the most readers in the country, so it should be well recognized ;) http://derstandard.at/?id=2160606 enjoy and thanks for doing a great job Andreas -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Revamped Gnome.org
Richard Hoelscher a écrit : Long story short, for the purpose of front-page use, I'm all in favor of GNOME being described as open source software, not Open Source, Free Software or Open-Source Free Software. Use it as an adjective to get the point across that this is a community of good people that develop software together, without the emotional baggage. If they really want to learn more, they can, but there's no reason to shovel it onto the front page. Personally, I prefer the emotional baggage of free software than the misunderstood open source. Usually, we compromise and use the (long form) Free and Open Source Software. Which suits me fine. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Another big GNOME deployment in Brazil
Hi Lucas, Lucas Rocha a écrit : I could work on a little article about it for GNOME Journal but I'll need some reviews because my english is far from perfect for writing stuff. Sounds great! I'm sure we have lots of people (including me) happy to proof-read. If you're thinking of also writing about the Macedonian story, make sure to keep Arangel in the loop. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: FOSS.in and GNOME
Hi Sankarshan, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote: For those who came in late, FOSS.in is happening check the URL below: http://foss.in/2005 So what all can be done as part of GNOME presence (if at all) ? I will try and get a thread going on the FOSS mailing list so as to enable an exchange of ideas. Great! I've forwarded your message along to GNOME India and GNOME Bangalore's mailing lists - they've been very active in promoting GNOME in India, and they might be able to commit to a stand. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME's Target Markets
Quim Gil wrote: En/na Ken VanDine ha escrit: We shouldn't be specifically targeting developers any more, we should focus on getting mainstream users. When they come the developers follow. Well, it seems Google thinks the other way round. Many times they have released something new (beta) seducing first the hackers of the free software community, knowing that of they get excited other may come beind. Mozilla has been successful just by following the same way. What's more, even if you are Nike, Sun, Sony, Nokia, BMW or Microsoft in order to hit the mainstream you need a budget out of GNOME's calculations. I agree with Quim, mostly - GNOME doesn't need developers so much as cool. And to be cool, cool people need to use your stuff. And developers are more cool than mainstream users in general. Calvin Klein is (was?) cool because cool people used it. Cool made popular. Popular meant not cool. People moved on to Prada, Gap, or whatever. We need momentum users - users who go out, and are proud of the stuff they use, tell people about it, and their blogs get read by millions of people who want to be a little more like them, and so they use it, and like it, and tell people about it, and... All of a sudden, we're running volunteer funded full page ads in the New York times. We *probably* have a bigger user base than KDE. Because GNOME comes by default on an awful lot of Linux. But we definitely run second in the momentum users stakes. Any online poll will tell you that. And getting the momentum users is all about being simple, surprising and cool. Being both simple and surprising is hard. Think of the first time you hit Ctrl-F in Firefox 0.7 or 0.8 and you didn't have a windo pop up. I remember what I said to myself - Cool! - and then I told a bunch of other people. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: real marketing or just catchy slogans?
Hi Claus, Claus Schwarm wrote: * No 'exclusive' influence on developers or product decisions. Even the board is unable to do that. Ahem. The board *shouldn't* do that. Not the same thing. We are a sub-group of the GNOME project. If we have some suggestions for Nautilus, backed up with real user feedback, I am sure we will have more weight than any old Joe Bloggs. We haven't tested the theory yet, though. Activity on mailing lists and bugzilla is the best way to do that. And getting to know the developers involved :) there's not even a way to gain a reputation for making good product suggestions. Unlike wikipedia, GNOME favours credentials over consensus. Gaining a reputation for making good product suggestions will come from (guess what?) making good product suggestions. * There's no way to break to circle: No data - No target (market) - No data - We have lots of data. Every GNOME release, we get data. So far, we've simply had no way to analyse, synthesis and transmit that data to the people who need to get it. This is the most important job the marketing community must do - not talking to people outside GNOME about what's happening inside, but the other way around. Making sure the right people inside GNOME are getting feedback from people who aren't using Bugzilla. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: real marketing or just catchy slogans?
Hi, Murray Cumming wrote: getting information is the start - when their information retrieval contributes to technical decisions in a project, our marketing will begin to be more successful. Fine. But when that getting information is obviously stalled then it can't be allowed to stop us. Momentum is important, I agree. We do know what our users want, and we do know what they are like. Sure we do, in general. And we're making good software, in general. And yet, there are a bunch of points which have come up repeatedly as annoyances (and thus a usability issue) in GNOME reviews and articles - having a preference in Nautilus to change to the browser view, having Nautilus places and GTK+ bookmarks be shared, etc. I don't know what progress (if any) is being made on some of these things. I don't know if they're considered priority items at this stage. I think we also overestimate the value of this targetting: - Ubuntu have very generic emotional marketing materials, yet I think we would like their kind of success. Ubuntu targetted momentum users early, and are reaping rewards. - Use Debian, and get developer buy-in from the Debian community - Use GNOME, and get developer buy-in from GNOME community - Hire community leaders from both as advocates They've also directly targetted hardware vendors - their hardware database, and contracts with HP and others to certify hardware, will make them a good choice for pre-install on OEM desktops and laptops. When that happens, it won't have been by accident. To consider Ubuntu's marketing as unfocussed would be wrong. They woprked very hard early on to get community involvement, and in effect turned the Debian and GNOME projects into their marketing department. - Firefox also have a very wide market with a very generic product, and marketed successfuly to that wide market.. They didn't decide to target scientific users or educational users. (Yes, I know they had a slightly easier delivery method.) Have you forgotten that Firefox/Mozilla was an early-adopter fringe product for years before jumping the chasm? And by conventional marketing wisdom, with 10% market share they still haven't crossed the chasm (although I think it's fair to say that they have). When 1.0 came out, spreadfirefox.org was instrumental in their momentum. Again, their improvements have been entirely early-adopter/community driven. They got the cutting edge on board, and those guys helped them jump up in market share. And Mozilla has not *just* been marketing that way - they also have a classical marketing department, looking for big corporate support contracts, sending sales reps out to see what the big customers need, and making sure that Firefox gives it to them. OK, but don't think it's going to help our marketing to have a discussion about whether spatial nautilus is good or not I agree. But perhaps feedback from us will change the priority of a change up the chain? Spatial's great, I love it, it took me a while to get used to it. But there's a reason Ubuntu changed it. Yes. But a) what are the suggestions, and b) should we wait for one. a) I made a bunch. Anyone interested in taking on part of that project please contact me, or mail on-list. b) No. Marketing strategies can be developed in parallel, and we can certainly do some general communication promotion without addressing the needs of specific market segments. People should feel free to exert pressure, but I think the marketing-list would fail utterly if it expected to get this involved in the little details of development. There's enough pressure to get these things right from within the development community anyway, and telling people that you _really_ want them to do something doesn't really make it happen. I see all of this more as an organic, person to person thing. Here's a scenario. 1. Article gets published by someone giving out about GNOME. 2. Someone mails author asking him about specifics for a given problem 3. The someone creates a few Bugzilla entries, or adds comments in relevant bugzillas 4. The someone gets on to a developer in the project being given out about, perhaps on IRC, perhaps by mail. Just to say hi, tell him about the comments, maybe point to the bugzilla, and ask him what he thinks. 5. The developer thinks the concerns are irrelevant, and explains why - Mail author back 6. The developer agrees that thing X is a pain - Ask if it's planned during the next devel cycle. 7. If it is, tell author. If it isn't, ask for it to be. Or maybe contact the board ask them to put up a bounty for feature X. Or maybe try it yourself. 8. A month later, another article gives out about the same thing. Mail the author, add comments to bugzilla, touch base with the dev eloper (Hi, thought you might be interested in this article: the guy really wants the frobniz fixed - same complaint we got from (previous author) - has anyone shown interest in fixing
Re: real marketing or just catchy slogans?
Hi, Santiago Roza wrote: it's not me, it's us. we are supposed to be a marketing team, so we're supposed to be focused in pretty much the same direction (not 100% the same, but at least the basics). that's why i'm trying to gather some consensus, instead of starting yet another individual uncoordinated effort. Consensus might not be desirable for the marketing team. On some things, sure - but we will need people acting as individuals, with all their quirks, as long as we're on the same page and all working. Roughly designated target markets exist already. While you don't think there's a huge concensus around these, I disagree. A big list of stuff we can do exists. We're not short actions. We need to put names to each of these. I'll put this list in the wiki later... * Create personas for each of our target markets * For each target market, identify - our strengths - market needs - our weaknesses - how we address them - our approach for the target (this could be done through the personas) * Initiate a couple of programs, with clear goals and a simple path for someone to spend a couple of hours on GNOME. University outreach and local government outreach are two that are doable with big potential. - University outreach: Have one person for each region get a list of university computer societies and contact details, and solicit their help. - Get them to organise GNOME presentations where someone from GNOME goes along to do a talk - Send out posters - Get IT department contacts for universities while we're at it. As the computer clubs, they'll know the people already. * Organise for each of the target markets. We need a shared rolodex for distribution, government, press and momentum user contacts. We need people who know who they are going to try to contact, how, what their message will be, what questions we'd like to ask, what we can do with the answers. * Develop a strategy for getting data gathered by the marketing team to developers. * Around our central theme of simplicity, usability, power to the user, work on posters, banners, get them printed and get them out to user groups and university outreach groups. They're no good if they never get seen. * Get involved in organising GUADEC. It's the most public face of the project, and some marketing is needed. People with press contacts, spare time, some clue about what our community expects from its flagship conference, subscribe to guadec-list and guadec-planning, or mail myself or Quim. ok you're pretty clear on that, but is there a consensus? Yeah. Claus disagrees with me on a couple of them, but we're all pretty much on the same page. i agree 100%, and that's why i don't like the let's advertise, marketing will come later approach: what will you advertise (and how and to whom) if you don't have answers to those questions? Well, what we have now is pretty good. We have a product, a user-driven design philosophy, a decent track record and a bunch of stuff we're proud of. Talking about what we're proud of is good. no i'm not waiting for anyone's direction; i have my own, thank you :) Grand. What would you like to do, then? We can fix goals, but people have to drive themselves towards those goals. Communication is vitally important when we don't see each other face to face very often, so we have a list, we have a (very quiet) IRC channel, we have the GNOME Journal, we have the wiki, we will soon have, quite probably, a drupal. So: * Set goals * Let people off to drive towards those goals * Auto-correct course en route if we get off-course. What do you want out of the GNOME marketing team? What are you doing to get towards that goal? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: real marketing or just catchy slogans?
Hi, Murray Cumming wrote: I think both our development and marketing would be helped (to have organisational focus) by having Personas. A university was working on them a couple of years ago, but that effort seems to have failed. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-December/msg00482.html So - who wants to take this on? (don't be shy) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Desktop personas (draft)
Hi, Alex Hudson wrote: I would be happy to help contribute to some personas if people think it's worth doing. I think it is. Ideally, we could go into real depth on the personas and how they might interact with GNOME (and also how GNOME doesn't suit them), and do a smashing presentation of the results at GUADEC or some other conference, to generate a feedback cycle. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Desktop personas (draft)
Hi, Santiago Roza wrote: if you follow Cooper (and I'm not exactly sure how personas are supposed to apply to marketing), you're not trying to define a target audience per se. What you're doing is actual characterisation, as a novelist might do then maybe we don't have to follow cooper strictly, because we might end up with something we can't use for marketing purposes. I disagree. What you're doing is creating living, breathing characters which represent your target audiences. To say that a specific personage can't be representative of the needs of a class of people (at least 70% or 80%) is wrong. The advantage of personas is that it's easier to think of needs in terms of a real person, you can hope to create an emotional link between the developer and the fictional character. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tarzan and Jane - GNOME personas 2005
Hi, Marcus Bauer wrote: Sounds all very good. Here are my suggestions for five personas: Jane, 19yo, college student. Tarzan, 30yo, no kids, running a small business Doris, 35yo, two kids, parttime job freelance design Cary, 45yo, decision maker desktop IT dept. of 200 employee company Miss Ellie, 60yo, 4 grand children These five personas should sum up to at least 80% of society. The have different needs and should be well definable. The personas we're aiming to create aren't supposed to be representative of society, but representative of our target markets. Doris Miss Ellie don't seem to me to fit the bill. Perhaps Chad, a lead programmer at Cyberdyne Computers, a company writing software and considering a port to Linux, would be a better fit for a 3rd party developer? And it'd be cool if Tarzan could have a blog that gets read by over 5,000 people per day. And how about having Cary be the IT manager for a mid-European town council, or perhap a small county in the UK, or a French school district, rather than a private company? And we could replace Miss Ellie with Caroline, a product manager at a leading distribution of Linux? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Indian bank move to RHEL
Hi, http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,105513,00.html?from=story_kc An Indian bank will move to RHEL on 1,000 servers and 10,000 workstations. Not sure if they'll be using GNOME, given that they're migrating from DOS and Netware, perhaps they're going to be using a console app? ;) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: response to linus...?
Hi, Fernando San Martín Woerner wrote: El sáb, 17-12-2005 a las 00:53 +1100, Jeff Waugh escribió: I'm really disappointed that Quim and German aren't on, but everyone who stood this year was rad in one way or another, so I'm again disappointed that we've reduced the number of directors. that was our argument itself, and the results confirm my thought While I agree 100% with Jeff's opinion (both German and Quim were on my list), I think the argument that the results reduced the variety of the board is a big fat does not follow. This year, we have Anne and Vincent Untz as new board members, and in terms of geographic distribution, we've got 2 US, 1 Mexico, 2 France, 1 Denmark and 1 Australia. That's pretty varied. Certainly just as varied as last year. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: About copyright infringments
Hi, If I recall the incident correctly, jimmac (the artwork copyright holder) contacted them and asked them to stop, which they did. Cheers, Dave. Selon Juan Carlos Inostroza [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, some time ago a company used some GNOME stock icons for their commercial product. What happened after all the buzz about that? Oh, and BTW, there's another usage of the GNOME logo, this time on http://www.randomimage.us/ (Randomimage). Regards, -- Juan Carlos Inostroza [EMAIL PROTECTED] The world will end in 5 minutes. Please logoff now -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- Dave Neary Lyon, France -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Website
Hi, Claus Schwarm wrote: It might be a good idea to look for several persons, not just for one. The GNOME web is rather large. For example, you can't expect somebody maintaining www.gnome.org to take care about live.gnome.org, too. This is simply too much work for a single volunteer. To be precise: this is about www.gnome.org. I've tried to improve the content of www.gnome.org in the past few months as best as I can and time permits. I think I'd like to continue doing that. There are three aspects to the site - the content, its organisation, and the look. One person (or a small group of people) can collaborate on the site, and keep some kind of conceptual integrity to the whole lot, and I hope can avoid falling into the trap of spending too much time on the look, or on the actual content without considering the navigation. Quim asked some great questions on accessibility of content a few months ago, which might be worth rereading. Are you looking for a maintainer of library.gnome.org, too? ... You should also look for maintainer of projects.gnome.org. ... Maintaining p.g.o should be easy ... Another question is foundation.gnome.org Separate questions. I'm personally not clear on what lgo wants to be. I know Federico is interested in it, but this seems like a jfdi situation... a decent skeleton/mock-up of a library.gnome.org would probably be welcome. pgo has a maintainer already. What is projects.gnome.org? foundation.gnome.org would use a maintainer - the position is up for grabs. Making a long text short: IMO, we should try to split our webpages into maintainable pieces, and find a maintainer for each of them. Repeating my initial precision - we're talking about www.gnome.org, the main public face of GNOME. It needs a lot of work - mostly in the navigation, but also in the look and the content. It urgently needs a new front page design (although the most recent one is better than the old one). People have been talking for years about having it be CMS managed - well, the door is open. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Dark background foot
Hi, Twice now I've needed a GNOME foot that worked well on a dark background. I've used the one attached, which works well, I think. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Looking for representatives for a GNOME stand in San Diego, 24 - 25 April
Hi all, The GNOME Foundation has a stand at the Desktop Linux Summit in San Diego this year - the event is on the 24th and 25th of April. I'm looking for a couple of volunteers who would like to go and man the stand during the two days, we can cover some printing costs for the stand and send on some merchandising. We can probably also cover (reasonable) travel costs, if you need them. Jeff Waugh, Nat Friedman and other GNOME lovers will be there as speakers, and it'll be great fun. Who's up for it? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Dark background foot
Check the changelog before you hit send! http://live.gnome.org/RecentChanges Cheers, Dave. Luis Villa wrote: Wiki! :) Luis On 4/3/06, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Twice now I've needed a GNOME foot that worked well on a dark background. I've used the one attached, which works well, I think. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Report from the GNOME booth at Eclispe Con
Hi Murray, Murray Cumming wrote: On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 20:35 +1200, Glynn Foster wrote: Except the 'dekstop' typo - And whenever should probably be whether or if. Any chance you could have a check over the rest of the text and suggest a different version? The SVG is in the wiki, so updating it is straightforward, and I'm sure Andreas would appreciate it. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
[Fwd: [Foundations] Siggraph tradeshow]
Hi, Is siggraph something we should be interested in? Projects like the GIMP have participated before, and with the usage GNOME is getting in Hollywood, perhaps it's something we should consider. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- Hi all, I know there's not many foundations here with direct interest in the CG business, but nevertheless. :) Already since Blender became opened up 4 years ago, I try to get Siggraph (the main conference for computer graphics) to do more for open source projects. This typically with mixed results, in general we're banned to the periphery areas away from the center hotspots. Since last year Siggraph offers the opportunity for non-profits and universities to rent floorspace on the tradeshow, for about 25% of the normal price. I'm seriously considering this, also because we can partner up with a EU consortium for it. Floorspace per 10x10 feet unit is 1500 USD, additional costs for furniture rental etc is unknown, something between 1000-2000 USD max. Things would go much smoother though if I could combine it with more organizations. I'm thinking of a nice 20x30 island booth, which could host up to six projects then. The Blender Foundation can do all organization/producing work for this, and finance it up to 50% max. Question; are there organizations on this list interested to participate? Or; is there an organization with a budget available to sponsor us? Visual presence of FOSS projects on the tradeshow in Siggraph would really be a cool happening. :) Needless to say, with our Open Movie (creative commons) Elephants Dream we already got a great eyecatcher! http://www.siggraph.org/s2006/ -Ton- -- Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blender.org ___ foundations mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/foundations ---End Message--- -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Printed program take off
Hi, Sara Khalatbari wrote: So about the content: What do you think it should include? In introduction? about guadec? or guadec 2006? or? A few words from the conference co-ordinator. A short history of GUADEC. A foreword for this GUADEC, describing what's new. Any interviews? (give examples please) Interviews with the keynote speakers, at least. Which articles should it included? any of the talks? The schedule, with the summaries of the talks which everyone submitted for the conference. Will it be A3, A4 or A5 ? I prefer A3 (small newspaper format) - previous GUADEC programmes have been A5. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Marketing GNOME BOF
Hi, I had not planned staying around GUADEC on Friday, which is when the GNOME marketing BOF has been planned: Presentation: http://guadec.org/node/218 Schedule: http://guadec.org/GUADEC2006/schedule/AHW I see two possibilities: 1. I move the BOF into Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday (without being in the printed schedule, of course), and get the interested parties together during a time when there's no major clash 2. Someone else takes over the BOF (volunteer?). I'm fine with either. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [guadec-list] Marketing GNOME BOF
Hi, Quim Gil wrote: El dj 01 de 06 del 2006 a les 16:40 +0200, en/na Dave Neary va escriure: 1. I move the BOF into Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday (without being in the printed schedule, of course), and get the interested parties together during a time when there's no major clash My vote for this option. How about 10am - noon Tuesday? It's always going to be tough to find a good slot, and there will always be clashes, but given that I'd like to have a 2 hour slot, and see Lucas's presentation on the journal on Monday afternoon, the two best slots I can see are 10 - 12 Tuesday or 10 - 12 Wednesday. A flip of a coin gave it to Tuesday. I'm sure that we're all more or less tired of discussing target markets over and over - I'd like to propose that we organise a strategy for attacking 3 major markets - * third party developers - will need co-ordination with platform developers - Preparation of material showing the benefits of developing on the GNOME platform - Laying out and printing the platform overview that Shaun wrote - Setting up a decent feedback loop from third parties (the board can help here, we're in contact with the advisory board on this issue) - Co-ordinate participation in future OSDW sessions * Public administrations - Spanish, French, German and Asian organisers needed - Collect addresses of public officials inquiring about free software or planning migrations - Contacting people responsible for announcements of free software adoption to offer help and get feedback - Feedback loop - working with the development community to address concerns we hear about from administrations - Focus on South America, India, China and Europe - Set up reporting so that everyone knows who's talking to who (shared address book and contact management solution - Drupal?) * Hobbyists - Early adopters - synthesising feedback and pushing it back into the system - Hobbyists - working with computer magazines to get free software on the cover disks and get articles published (article writers needed here!) - Trade shows - organising the event boxes, working on budget for stand rental/construction and getting volunteers for trade show stands - Getting promotional material printed and delivered in a timely fashion - Merchandising - let's leverage the passion! - Working with people like Canonical to co-ordinate presence at trade shows - University outreach - contacting local university user groups - see Jono Bacon's UK tour, or the BadgerBadgerBadger tour as good examples of possibilities - encourage your local LUG to have open door sessions, and get a big name to come present - University outreach 2 - contact teaching heads of local colleges and push open formats and free software for college exercises and training - Co-ordinate all these contacts and events - Drupal maybe? This is a *huge* amount of work, but luckily, it's broken down into small chunks, which can have bite-sized micro-tasks - for instance one person can organise a GNOME presentation at the local university and get a GNOME developer to come present. One person can contact the Sao Paolo government. One person can organise trade show presence. If we do this stuff well, it will make a massive difference to our marketing. Even if we do one category really well, it will rock GNOME's world. Even if we do half of each category well, we change everything. Let's get moving in the right direction. I will not be surprised when we change course during the voyage, but let's haul anchor, hoist the mainsail and drift off into the sunset. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: slide templates missing?
Hi, Jeff Waugh wrote: Hrm, might be an artifact of the wiki migration - I'll take a look tomorrow (ping me on IRC about it when I'm around - I'll probably not remember this email because I'm at an Ubuntu developer summit and have been drinking.) No - it looks like they were moved on the external site. We should probably refind themand attach them to the wiki. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: Exhibitor Magazine Honors LinuxWorld San Francisco 2005 for its Attendee Traffic Density]
Hi, Paul Cooper wrote: That experience made me think about writing a cheat sheet for Expos - but it turns out that there is already an excellent set of notes at http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam/EventsOrganisation thanks to Thilo, Murray and Luis. It will only take a small amount of preplanning from those notes to have a 100% better booth than we had a Boston (although this is a bit of taller than Mickey Rooney competition). There is also the event box, which will be available for LW SF and OSCON. We still need a brave volunteer to drive. If you've been looking for an easy way to dive into GNOME marketing, and you're planning on going to LW SF, shout. If no-one shouts, well, no stand. As an aside - is anyone in Portland organising a booth for OSCON (because I can help out if needed). I'm not sure. I don't think that there has been any groundswell interest in organising one. In fact, our US event organisation is about the worst anywhere - in France, gnome-fr more or less makes sure we have a stand at every important event, in Germany, GNOME-de does the same thing. We have no local US infrastructure for these kinds of things in the US. Anyone fancy founding a GNOME-US? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: OSCON was Re: [Fwd: blah blah LinuxWorld San Francisco 2005 blah blah]
Hi, Paul Cooper wrote: I would tend to agree with Sriram that a booth may not be the most productive use of our time at OSCON. I've just found out that they are also doing a BarCamp style unconference in parallel with OSCON called (wait for it.) OSCAMP. See http://oscamp.org - in particular http://oscamp.org/Call_for_Speakers - although BarCamps are usually unstructured plan-it-on-the-day kind of events. Perhaps we can think of some things to present there? OK - take it away guys :) I agree that at this stage, a stand isn't as useful as a decent BOF - register the BOF here: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/46/bof.html Also OSCamp sounds good, and worthwhile. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Call for art!
Hi all, By the way, in case I wasn't clear before - this is one 30x60 banner for both the GIMP and GNOME. If in doubt, then GNOME should be the dominant theme on there. Cheers, Dave. Jakub Steiner wrote: On Mon, 2006-07-10 at 23:21 +0200, David Neary wrote: Can someone do a 30 x 60 banner design for GIMP GNOME for me this week, by any chance? Please? It should have both the GNOME logo and Wilber, but aside from that you're free. Hi Dave, Here's a quickie minimalistic banner. Not really knowing any catchy slogans, it's simply stating the project name. Feel free to modify, it's Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike. Preview: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/siggraph-gnome.png http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/siggraph-gimp.png SVGs: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/siggraph-gnome.svg http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/siggraph-gimp.svg Some technical notes - Inkscape 0.44 seems to have problems with clipped objects. If you don't see the gnome foot or Wilber when you open the SVG, select the Wilber/GNOME layer, select all with Ctrl+A, release mask with objectcliprelease and apply it again with objectclipset. cheers -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Call for art!
Thanks Jakub! Any chance that you can send me the SVG? ;-) All that's needed really is the project name, website, and maybe a glimpse of a screenshot, I think. I've had few guidelines, artistic licence is the order of the day. No catchy slogans required :) Cheers, Dave. Jakub Steiner wrote: On Mon, 2006-07-10 at 23:21 +0200, David Neary wrote: Can someone do a 30 x 60 banner design for GIMP GNOME for me this week, by any chance? Please? It should have both the GNOME logo and Wilber, but aside from that you're free. Hi Dave, Here's a quickie minimalistic banner. Not really knowing any catchy slogans, it's simply stating the project name. Feel free to modify, it's Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike. Some technical notes - Inkscape 0.44 seems to have problems with clipped objects. If you don't see the gnome foot or Wilber when you open the SVG, select the Wilber/GNOME layer, select all with Ctrl+A, release mask with objectcliprelease and apply it again with objectclipset. cheers -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Call for art!
Hi, Andreas Nilsson wrote: David Neary wrote: Can someone do a 30 x 60 banner design for GIMP GNOME for me this week, by any chance? Please? It should have both the GNOME logo and Wilber, but aside from that you're free. Do you mean something like this? Or do you mean one logo on each side? http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/gimpgnomeposter.png If this is ok, I'll fix it up in Scribus tonight so it will be in printable colors and stuff. I did mean something like that - but I was hoping for something a little more fancy, with some text (see jimmac's effort, which had a description under a logo, and he's going to add a URL too) - in fact, I was hoping that people would play with the idea and come up with some visually impressive stuff which encapsulated the logos, without overpowering them, and which included some aspect of the software (partial screenshots, for example) and a minimum of information (a slogan is optional, the URL probably isn't). Chris Mohler also did a couple of banners (all-in-one rather than split into two, with no text) which I thought were nice: http://cr33.is-a-geek.com/banners/ Anyway, thanks for the effort, Andreas. Between yourself, Chris jimmac, I'm sure we'll have something great. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Call for art!
Hi Mukund, Mukund wrote: I see time is limited for this, but I would really like more than one artist to collaborate and do this as a team. That's all I have to add. Given the time constraints, and previous experience with this kind of thing, design by committee is definitely not a good idea. One artist with his own artistic vision should be able to come up with a first draft in an evening (bearing in mind that this should be visually clear from a distance, and thus simple). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Wiki changes [Was: Personas]
Hi, James Henstridge wrote: On 16/07/06, David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you tell me how? The little feed icon's gone, and I couldn't find an rss action. Still seems available as here: http://live.gnome.org/RecentChanges?action=rss_rc There is a comment at the top of that page explaining the various options you can change what goes into the RSS feed (include diffs, number of items, etc). Hm. Doesn't work as a live bookmark in Firefox. Works in Sage though. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: On breaking the woohoo barrier...thoughts on how GNOME can get great
Hi Claus, Claus Schwarm wrote: snip If Doc Searls' thesis about the viability of traditional marketing is correct, why are OSS projects that care about this traditional marketing more successful than those who not? I think you have the cart and the horse in the wrong order there. What has happened is that while maturing, free software has not just changed the way we produce software, it has also changed the way we market it. From spreadfirefox and firefox flicks through the phenomenon of blogging software producers (Sun, 37signals, mozilla (again), but also GNOME, KDE, ...) free software has changed the entire culture of software over the past 10 years, including its marketing. The most successful free software products are the ones who have been leading this change, they are the ones who have clued in to the cluetrain the quickest, and who have added the slightest amount of order and direction to the massive community of users around the projects. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Attracting sponsors
Hi Dulmandakh, DULMANDAKH Sukhbaatar wrote: It's not just connected to GNOME, but community events at all. Here, in Mongolia, I organized first Linux Install Fest in 7th of April, and will organize many of them. But everytime I initiate some ideas or community events I end up having problems with funding. Getting sponsors for small community events is hard. It's ironic that it is easier to get $5,000 or $10,000 in sponsorship from a big company than it is to get $1,000. And getting money from small local companies is hard in general. But there are a few tricks that you can try. And the questions are how I can attract sponsors and what benefits can I offer them? How can I encourage them to be our sponsor? Please give me some suggestions. First, you should prepare a pre-conference document which outlines the goals of the conference - who will be there, what kind of presentations you'll have, if you're having a trade show, what types of stands are available, and roughly how many people you're expecting (although I've always been honest about how many people I'm expecting, I'm an optimist. It is not unusual to overestimate attendance for small events by up to 50%, since it's difficult to count attendees anyway). This document (which you really shouldn't spend too long on) will help get you past the first level of person, the secretary who doesn't have any decision making authority but filters incoming requests, or the marketing person who has never heard of free software (I'm generalising a lot here). The document on its own will not get you sponsorship, but not having it will lose you sponsors. Second, if you're having a trade show, set your prices about double what you consider reasonable - if stands are too cheap, people will not consider that there's any interest in them. You can always negociate with someone who wants to take a big stand. To price your stands, try and find out what commercial conferences are charging in your region, and undercut them a little (by 20 - 30%). I'm not a big fan of trade shows in free software conferences though, and they're usually more of a pain to organise than they bring in in money. Third, aim big for sponsors. Don't ask for the few hundred dollars you need, ask for a few thousand. You can say At USD$5,000 this is the cheapest keynote sponsor spot you'll see for this type of conference - you'll get top billing in a conference with lots of influential techies. Aim for the regional or global people who may have heard of you or your project, rather than the local sales office, where they probably haven't. So let's say you decide that RedHat or IBM might be interested, see if you can get the email address of an open source strategist or director of open source operations or something like that - these people will usually be visible on mailing lists and websites, and as keynotes at conferences (look at the OSCon speaker list, for example), and they may have a blog. Ask them directly, in a casual and informal manner. If your request looks too formal, it risks being sent to the trashcan as a mass-mailed spam (even if you spent several hours working on it). Conversation gets attention. The first step is to make a list of possible sponsors, in order of the relevance of your conference to their business, and then ordered by the chances of getting money. For a sysadmin conference, the Unix producers (HP, IBM, Sun, Fujitsu?, Bull?) are likely to be the most relevant, but then filter on their current results - Sun are about to do a layoff, so your chances of getting money off them are likely to be slim to none. Then the hardware producers and resellers (things like printers, UPSes, racks, storage devices). Then the Linux distributions. Then the local government offices (try to get the direct contact for the chief information officer, and the phone works better for government contacts than email). Then the commercial software creators (if you're willing to sell your soul). For each company, try to put a name opposite, and try to measure your chances based on your responses. If you don't get a reply, don't hesitate to resend a polite and short ping a week later, and every week until you get a reply. Hope this advice helps - perhaps it should go in the conference organisation cheat sheet that Paul Cooper is going to work on (isn't that right, Paul? ;-) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: cms performance
Hi, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: Kinda. The il8n stuff makes the journal a single language one. One I do not find optimal as the magazines [1] who have re-printed our articles have mostly been Spanish speaking. I missed the footnote in your mail... Linux Pratique last year [1] reprinted several journal articles (and, in fact, had a bimonthly slot open for us for a 2 page article, but the translator lost interest a little) in French. Cheers, Dave. [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2005-September/msg00054.html -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Attracting sponsors
Hi, Quim Gil wrote: Coincidentally, I just knew today about http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraising-list I guess it is an obsolete list. Can we recycle something from their activity in the past? Not only is it an obsolete list, it looks like it was obsolete when created. There are exactly 3 non-spam/test message/mass mail messages, all from October 2001. The list never lived. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Upcoming Events: LWE SFO
Hi Corey, Lloyd, Just removing a few mailing lists from the mix, and adding Jorge's name on here. He's probably on marketing-list already, but no harm being safe. Thanks Jeff for sending out the call for help! Cheers, Dave. Corey Burger wrote: On 7/31/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/19/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LinuxWorldExpo, San Francisco is *the* big Linux tradeshow to be seen at, and GNOME will be there in force! Well, that's what we want to do, anyway. GNOME usually has a booth in the .org pavilion, where all the cool FOSS projects hang out. Running a booth sounds a bit sucky, but it's actually really cool if you like talking to users, gathering feedback, showing off our latest work, and so on. Plus, it's a good opportunity to catch up with fellow GNOME dudes running the booth. ;-) If you'd like to help out at LWE, please sign up on the wiki page below. Where: San Francisco CA, USA When: August 14-17, 2006 Link: http://live.gnome.org/LWESFO2006 I am living in the bay area a short time longer, and I would like to participate at LWE SF while I am still here. I have neither volunteered at a GNOME booth before or similar event. I am wondering how I can best prepare and participate? -- Peace be in you, Lloyd D Budd Jorge Castro (irc nick: whiprush) is organizing the booth this year. I have just learned that my company is shipping me down there, so I will in the booth as well. Corey -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
[Fwd: [Foundations] EuroOSCON .org day]
Hi, EurOSCon is reserving place for free software projects to present in Amsterdam this year - is there any interest in a GNOME stand there? My initial feeling is no - from what I've seen, the OSCons aren't particularly desktop oriented, or necessarily free *nix oriented. But if someone is willing to take on responsibility for organising a stand, then rock on. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---BeginMessage--- EuroOSCON is reserving a day for open source non-profits to exhibit. If you're interested, please contact Andrew Calvo [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Feel free to pass this along to other open source foundations. We have a limited number of spaces, and will allocate them as groups apply until we run out. Allison Original Message Subject: Re: EuroOSCON .org day Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:03:03 -0700 From: Andrew Calvo [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are offering open source projects and relevant Dot Org's a complimentary demo station at EuroOSCON on Sept 20 from 10:00-17:00. We will provide a table, electricity, wireless and two easels for signage, and one sessions pass. ___ foundations mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/foundations ---End Message--- -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Journalists contacted
Hi all, I just sent mail to Joe Zonker Brockmeier, Ando Oram, Nathan Willis and Denis Bodor about the 2.16 release (following my own advice and centralising the knowledge). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Journalists contacted
I also contacted Graeme Wearden of ZDNet and Gavin Clarke of TheRegister (through a web form, if anyone knows him feel free to double up). Cheers, Dave. Dave Neary wrote: Hi all, I just sent mail to Joe Zonker Brockmeier (Newsforge and more), Ando Oram (ORA), Nathan Willis (also Newsforge) and Denis Bodor (Linux Magazine France) about the 2.16 release (following my own advice and centralising the knowledge). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
Hi Santiago, If you are a del.icio.us user, then please bookmark these with the tag gnome216 (you can use more than one tag if you like, but please include that one). I think I got these three, but there's no harm in having pages bookmarked more than once. I haven't seen any Spanish articles bookmarked yet - just French, German and English. Isn't anyone covering this in Spain or South America? How about Asia? Cheers, Dave. Santiago Roza wrote: these are the sources i found so far: http://slashdot.org/articles/06/09/07/0240207.shtml http://arstechnica.com/articles/columns/linux/linux-20060905.ars http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6261033378.html feel free to add more... -- Santiago Roza [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: About the 2.18 release plans (was Re: User oriented release notes)
Hi Quim, Quim Gil wrote: In short: let's propose to the release team a call for 2.18 goals to the developers. Maybe you missed this mail I sent to desktop-devel-list last week: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00114.html I have a file containing all of the MAINTAINERS files in GNOME CVS - unsorted by whether the module is in the GNOME desktop, bindings, admin or platform releases, or isn't in a GNOME release set at all. I will be happy to send this on to someone else who'd like to take on this task - since I have no internet access outside work hours for the next few weeks. I have the file here, but obviously don't want to send it to a public mailing list (we receive enough spam already). Interested parties reply off-list please. The task is fairly simple: * Categorise maintainers by module, categorise modules by GNOME status (see release sets above, and add in GNOME/non-GNOME for the others). Some modules, for example, such as the GIMP, aren't GNOME programs and probably wouldn't appreciate a request for what features are you planning to add - other modules are following the GNOME release cycle, and should be considered part of GNOME, even if they're not in the releases. Rhythmbox comes to mind. * Do your best to avoid double-sending mails to the same person * Send a mail to all the maintainers explaining what we're trying to do briefly and ask them what features they expect to have in the next two release cycles * Aggregate the results at GNOME Roadmap in the wiki, and publish/spread the results. This mail could also be sent to desktop-devel-list, or gnome-announce, but perhaps we should take feedback from thoise sources with a grain of salt when held against the feedback we get from the module maintainers (who will inevitably be driving feature additions). The responses would be listed at http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap . After October 18th [End of new (app) modules proposal period] we extract these goals in another wiki page where release team and marketing team with the supervision of the board triage, group and prioritize 3-5 core goals that will be the basis for a common 2.18 strategy. My idea for this is not so much to try to concentrate or channel efforts to certain core goals (that would be brilliant, but I don't think it's feasible for a first try at this). My main intention is to get module maintainers thinking now about features they'd like to prioritise for 2.18 and 2.20, and to see if we can't get a synergy effect where two maintainers realise that some goal they have is related, and they get working on things together. Why am I asking people to think 2 releases ahead? Because I figure that the next release will always have as it's focus near-term goals (fix the frobnoz dialog to do blingnit), whereas when thinking a year ahead, maintainers will tend to look to more aspirational goals. I'm hoping that the net effect is to help make some of those aspirational goals become a reality. If the release team thinks it's worth, we can start collaborating now. I think this is an excellent way to get out of a funk and generate a positive collaboration between marketing and development. I heartily endorse this product or service. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: layout Plan - feedback form
Hi, LeeTambiah wrote: Claus Schwarm has requested an extra block for the second page being a link to feedback form. I personally feel this is unnecessary as the user can get information from the about section. Shall we go with this, drop it, or add as an optional component? I've mostly stayed out of the webpage discussions because I don't have any time to give it, and because Quim's been doing such a great job leading the project, but there are a couple of things that are confusing me here... What exactly do you mean, Lee, by a block? Isn't a link just a link? And which page is the second one? Certain information can benefit from redundancy - for example, a link to a feedback form makes sense on a Support page as on a Contribute page. Or even on the About page. The lists of links should be kept short (no more than 7 or 8 links in one block, if I understand correctly what a block is). So if the second page is relevant to a I use GNOME, and would like to report an issue use-case, and there is a block relevant to Contacting someone from GNOME, then a link to a feedback form is relevant. The core question is, what is this second page for? What's most important is that the pages be clean, with few blocks of text, and a menu which brings you directly to most of the common information you might want (see the UseCases for that information). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
Quim Gil a écrit : Good bits in GNOME 2.16 http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/09/18/2031230 Not yet del.icio.us user, sorry. Gah. some minor feature enhancements? If there's one thing I regret it's that we didn't push this release as The big performance push - there was a wealth of blog entries, performance fixes in the platform (Cairo, GTK+, pango) and focus on performance in some key applications like Evolution. We really should have made more mileage out of that - I can imagine headlines like The same GNOME, smaller and faster with by-lines like If you've been finding previous versions of GNOME a little sluggish on your older desktop, perhaps now is the time to upgrade. To my mind that is definitely a bigger feature than we will have more eye candy in future releases thanks to optional XGL support in Metacity. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
Hi, Santiago Roza a écrit : maybe because we didn't have any benchmarks available, i guess. how could we have them for future releases? The Evolution guys had (and sent us) benchmarks, Federico Mena, Ben Maurer, Cecilia Gonzalez Alvarez, Phillip van Hoof, Behdad Esfahbod... all of these people have worked a lot on performance for 2.16 (and 2.18), and have been publishing benchmarks on their blogs as they've been going along. Did anyone think to ask them? i mean what to measure, with which utilities, and how? (if i'm supposed to compile gnome from source, don't count on me) Ask the experts - leverage the expertise we have lying around to get the word out (and in) - the marketing team is supposed to be the place where two-way communication can happen, letting people outside know what people inside are working on, and letting people inside know what people outside want. If we're not listening to people on either side, we're badly placed to give advice or communicate. I'm sorry I didn't bring this up before the release, when it would have been more useful. Let's just learn the lesson, and make sure our finger is on the pulse next time, and give kudos where it's due. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Wow - look at the KDE news volume
http://www.google.com/trends?q=gnome%2Ckdectab=0geo=alldate=all Even though our search volume is staying roughly identical to KDE? look at their news references. We need to improve at this, the way the KDE promotion team have. That means a CRM (on its way, honest) and a really regular feed of information from inside the organisation to outside. Not just biannual press releases for the new versions, but announcements for new advisory board members, the GNOME embedded forum (when Jeff thinks it's reached the maturity that there's something to announce), initiatives like WSOP, anything everything. See what's buzzing GNOME hackers, and throw out an email to see if it buzzes up others too. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
Hi Claus, Claus Schwarm a écrit : This is what could be made after feedback from a helpful Evolution developer. Read it and ask yourself how many people are really affected by these improvements. I'm not sure whether that would have been sufficient to produce the headlines you're thinking of. The problem with that page is: 1. technical focus, rather than user focus (here are operations which are faster, rather than Here are high-level usecases which are faster) 2. The language is pretty tame. We have a headline that says performance tweaks - a tweak to me is turning a screw in your motor, it's not dramatically improving anything 3. It's not in the final release notes at all, not even as a footnote Some performance feature improvements were mentioned in Feature additions (longer battery life for laptops), but nothing on performance improvements for non-latin scripts (see Behdad and Federico's Pango blogs), performance improvements in the platform (Ryan Lortie, Ben Maurer and Federico Mena's blogs - especially the file chooser - not to mention Manu Cornet and Cecilia Gonzales, Federico's Google SOC and GNOME WSOP students, and Michael Meeks's work in Bonobo), improvements to Cairo performance (see Macslow's blog), improved login time (John Rice, Federico Mena), performance of Evolution (pvanhoof, harish, Cecilia) or OpenOffice.org (Michael Meeks), Nautilus (Federico again). Or how about the work that GNOME people have been doing on performance tools? Soren Sandmann's work on sysprof, or the call-tree scripts that Federico et al wrote to make those pretty graphs we've been seeing, or the work that got done on bootcharts because of a challenge thrown down by Owen Taylor (OK, tenuous link). My point is, this was being talked about on pgo for months, people like Jono Bacon were raving about our performance work, and a little more effort could have gone into explaining that in a way that made real the benefits of the increased performance (and even more, the effort put into it). Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
Hi, I'm feeling some aggression and defensiveness here which I'm going to put down to cultural differences. I will say, though, that we all have a part to play in improving things, and I think that this could have been addressed better if I'd brought it up before the release (mea culpa). Claus Schwarm a écrit : However, my point was that such a page was planned; for the first time in the history of GNOME release notes, AFAIK. In the old model of concentrating on user visible stuff, performance improvements would have gotten a paragraph, at best. There was a performance section for 2.12 too. Btw, before you critize the user relevance you should have seen the raw material. Also read the discussion about user relevance in general, here on the list. Sure - I also commented on the resulting text and suggested tying things to user actions. Which I can't find in the archives... There's a lot of stuff people talk about on pgo. What do you think? That release notes writers have nothing better to do than taking notes about stuff developers say somewhere on the Internet? Well, it's my primary news source to know what application maintainers are working on, and what is creating a buzz in our community. So yes, I think it is important for people interested in promoting GNOME (and particularly release notes writers) be aware of it. There was a wiki page dedicated to list changes worth mentioning in the release notes. In my book, if it wasn't mentioned on the wiki page, it gets ignored -- especially if the job was agreed upon on bloody week before deadline! Compare to feature request not made in bugzilla. So? Did any of those guys you mentioned enter a description on the wiki page? Not that I know. I don't know what vision you have of the marketing team, but mine does not consist of if you build it, they will come. marketing is a pro-active task - we need to go to people inside GNOME to find out what they're working on, and go to people outside GNOME to tell them, and get feedback. Then we need to take that feedback, go back to people inside GNOME, and see what they think. Rinse, repeat. So, do I think that module maintainers will swarm to a wiki page for 2.18 just because I write a blog entry asking them to? Hell, no. (As a site note, I didn't get the memo about OpenOffice becoming a part of GNOME. A link would be welcome! ;-) ) mmeeks is a bonobo maintainer, and a lot of the OOo on Linux performance work is done directly in the GNOME platform (gtk+, pango, libbonobo, libgnome/ui). It would be helpful if changes are described so that people without a clue about the previous version would have a chance to understand it. Also, performance improvements should be measured on a user level to be more useful. Also, usability changes should be include an explanation about the reason of the change. It's our job to get that raw techie information and translate/interpret it. Asking for it isn't going to make it happen. In fact, this job is the major task that the person who takes on the release notes/roadmap will have to handle. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
Hi, Claus Schwarm a écrit : Can you provide a rationale why do you think the time of developers is so much more valuable than anybody else's time? snip I was just talking about efficient organization: to minimize the work load for everybody, some agreements need to be taken care of. So, if there's a wiki page to enter stuff by maintainers, it should be used. snip And yes: I hope, some people just need a reminder. Some may need two or more, but at least blog entries about this will be relevant to GNOME. snip Also, there's no reason for the responsible people to *not* take a few more minutes to make some effort on how they describe changes. Of course, they can continue to mention a keyword and hope the writer understands it correctly. OK - it's clear that you're saying all these things to people other than those who should be hearing it. I'm sure Shawn McCance who leads the documentation project agrees with a lot of what you're saying. In fact, he's probably well placed to make suggestions as to how to improve things, or how to leverage the work the docs team are already doing. The i18n team are also made aware of all interface changes - perhaps they might be able to help. And you should definitely be talking to the maintainers about this, rather than the marketing list. And, again, ranting about this stuff won't improve the situation. And haranguing developers isn't going to make them any more eager to document their changes in a marketing-friendly way. So, please, by all means continue this discussion, but continue it with the relevant people, rather than on the marketing list. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Wow - look at the KDE news volume
Jeff Waugh a écrit : quote who=Dave Neary http://www.google.com/trends?q=gnome%2Ckdectab=0geo=alldate=all Dave, you have to be a bit more discerning. :-) How realistic do you think those numbers are, considering your experience with our press coverage? It doesn't seem right, surely? Needs more investigation, right? Perhaps I can illustrate my point with a more robust comparison: http://www.google.com/trends?q=kde%2Cgnome%2Cfirefox%2Cmysql So, from a quick glance, it looks like dot.kde.org is a news source for news.google.org, gnomedesktop.org (for example) is not. The lesson, it appears to me, is that we should be looking for ways to have community news sources on news.google.com. No? Cheers, Dave. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Wow - look at the KDE news volume
Jeff Waugh a écrit : quote who=Dave Neary http://www.google.com/trends?q=gnome%2Ckdectab=0geo=alldate=all Dave, you have to be a bit more discerning. :-) How realistic do you think those numbers are, considering your experience with our press coverage? It doesn't seem right, surely? Needs more investigation, right? Perhaps I can illustrate my point with a more robust comparison: http://www.google.com/trends?q=kde%2Cgnome%2Cfirefox%2Cmysql So, from a quick glance, it looks like dot.kde.org is a news source for news.google.org, gnomedesktop.org (for example) is not. The lesson, it appears to me, is that we should be looking for ways to have community news sources on news.google.com. No? Cheers, Dave. Cheers, Dave. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Wow - look at the KDE news volume
Hi, I'm not sure why, but a couple of mails from me just got released (perhaps from moderation) that were sent several weeks ago. Ignoring them is probably best :) Cheers, Dave. Thilo Pfennig wrote: 2006/9/26, Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The lesson, it appears to me, is that we should be looking for ways to have community news sources on news.google.com. No? Yes, I think this is it. The problem with gnomedesktop.org is I think that they do very few original reporting, they mostly cite other sites. BTW: Norway is THE GNOME country? Blog: http://vinci.wordpress.com Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tpfennig -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: marketing-list tiny reorg
Hi, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Quim Gil Do you think it makes sense to - move back to gnome-web-list all the web development discussion Yes please! But please bring it back here when we start talking about content rather than form. - create [EMAIL PROTECTED] and move there all the related topics Naw, I think that's definitely worth keeping here. More mailing lists is usually a bad idea. Events need to be a big part of our marketing effort. Complete agreement. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME Logo Branding Guidelines Concerns
Hi Murray, Murray Cumming wrote: Máirín is asking this partly because I think that some of the existing sub-logos on that page break our own rules about how to use the logo. We make the rules. Trademarks are about quality control and corporate image. So we can approve logos which are stylish and which clearly stay GNOMEy if we want. I think these rules are important - to keep the brand visually distinct and - because I think the lawyers told the board that it was necessary. The feedback we got from the lawyers (through Tim) was that the plain foot is easier to trademark, and thus easier to protect. At least, that's my recollection. As it happens, the plain foot is not registered - the old rock-foot is. That's why we still use TM rather than R with the plain black foot. (note: we can use R with the GNOME name, and we probably should start getting into the habit). I disagree with you that we need to have plain black to protect the brand - I think there's more value in allowing good variations of the foot to develop. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
