Re: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

[Peter Y. Zavalij]

Dear Shay,
1. If you trying to identify phases PDF is most comprehensive database for
this and COD (and others) could be used to expand the search in case of
negative results with PDF.
2) You are missing data that are not in COD and PDF. For example CSD data
are no longer included in PDF + any published data not included in any
database.


Peter Y. Zavalij
Director - X-ray Crystallographic Center
University of Maryland, College Park, M
​aryland

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Shay Tirosh  wrote:

> Dear retrievers
>
> I wander the followings:
> 1. How much COD and PDF overlaps?
> 2. What I am missing if I only search in COD and PDF?
>
> Are there any reviews addressing those questions ?
>
> Thank you from advance
>
> Shay
>
>
>
>
> --
> _
>
> Dr. Shay Tirosh
> Institute for Nanotechnology & Advanced Materials
> Bar Ilan University
> Ramat Gan, 52900
> Israel
> Phone: +972-(0)30-531-7320
> Mobile: +972-(0)54-8834533 <+972%2054-883-4533>
> Email: stiro...@gmail.com
> _
>
> ++
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> ++
>
>
>
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RE: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

[Radovan Cerny]

I agree with Alan, and may add that searching for isomorphous structures can 
help and happens very often. Complex anions may replace single atom anions etc. 
For the inorganic world I strongly recommend the Pearson Crystal Data which 
allows for nice combined search using for example atomic coordination.

Radovan

Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Alan Hewat
Envoyé : mardi 10 janvier 2017 16:54
À : Shay Tirosh 
Cc : rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

It depends on what you want. If you want to identify a powder pattern you 
probably want to use the PDF, which may also help with the structure. If you 
want to find a particular structure, you can try COD. If you are planning a 
structure determination and want to be sure that it hasn't already been done, 
you should use ICSD (inorganic) or CCSD (organic) if the material contains 
carbon because those databases are exhaustive.

If possible use all available databases, since it is expensive to do an 
experiment before doing a thorough literature search. Don't forget Google 
Scholar. Don't rely on databases; use them to find the original papers - then 
read them, don't just add them to your reference list.

You should also consider how the database is searched. A simple search on the 
supposed formula may miss the structure described with a slightly different 
formula, or may miss isomorphous structures that may be almost as useful as the 
structure you require.

Alan.

On 10 January 2017 at 16:12, Shay Tirosh 
> wrote:
Dear retrievers

I wander the followings:
1. How much COD and PDF overlaps?
2. What I am missing if I only search in COD and PDF?

Are there any reviews addressing those questions ?

Thank you from advance

Shay




--
_

Dr. Shay Tirosh
Institute for Nanotechnology & Advanced Materials
Bar Ilan University
Ramat Gan, 52900
Israel
Phone: +972-(0)30-531-7320
Mobile: +972-(0)54-8834533
Email: stiro...@gmail.com
_

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--
__
   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
> 
+33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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Re: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

[xtal]

At 17:12 10/01/2017 +0200, Shay Tirosh wrote:

Dear retrievers

I wander the followings:
1. How much COD and PDF overlaps?


Indeed the answer is funny.

It depends on you.
How much of your own data have you sent to COD ?
If zero, then there is no overlap at all, your own data will
be only in PDF (unless you published in journals allowing
the COD to grab for data, but they are very few).


2. What I am missing if I only search in COD and PDF?


Same funny answer, given that the number of crystallographers
sending their own data to the COD is itself absolutely funny.

Best,

Armel Le Bail

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Re: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

[Alan Hewat]

It depends on what you want. If you want to identify a powder pattern you
probably want to use the PDF, which may also help with the structure. If
you want to find a particular structure, you can try COD. If you are
planning a structure determination and want to be sure that it hasn't
already been done, you should use ICSD (inorganic) or CCSD (organic) if the
material contains carbon because those databases are exhaustive.

If possible use all available databases, since it is expensive to do an
experiment before doing a thorough literature search. Don't forget Google
Scholar. Don't rely on databases; use them to find the original papers -
then read them, don't just add them to your reference list.

You should also consider how the database is searched. A simple search on
the supposed formula may miss the structure described with a slightly
different formula, or may miss isomorphous structures that may be almost as
useful as the structure you require.

Alan.

On 10 January 2017 at 16:12, Shay Tirosh  wrote:

> Dear retrievers
>
> I wander the followings:
> 1. How much COD and PDF overlaps?
> 2. What I am missing if I only search in COD and PDF?
>
> Are there any reviews addressing those questions ?
>
> Thank you from advance
>
> Shay
>
>
>
>
> --
> _
>
> Dr. Shay Tirosh
> Institute for Nanotechnology & Advanced Materials
> Bar Ilan University
> Ramat Gan, 52900
> Israel
> Phone: +972-(0)30-531-7320
> Mobile: +972-(0)54-8834533 <+972%2054-883-4533>
> Email: stiro...@gmail.com
> _
>
> ++
> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list  >
> Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body
> text
> The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/
> rietveld_l@ill.fr/
> ++
>
>
>


-- 
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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RE: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

[Cline, James Dr. (Fed)]

This should be fun to watch…


James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Shay Tirosh
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:13 AM
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: How much COD and PDF database gives the complete known structures?

Dear retrievers

I wander the followings:
1. How much COD and PDF overlaps?
2. What I am missing if I only search in COD and PDF?

Are there any reviews addressing those questions ?

Thank you from advance

Shay




--
_

Dr. Shay Tirosh
Institute for Nanotechnology & Advanced Materials
Bar Ilan University
Ramat Gan, 52900
Israel
Phone: +972-(0)30-531-7320
Mobile: +972-(0)54-8834533
Email: stiro...@gmail.com
_
++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++